Help improving speed and accuracy

[Twitch]

Hey Twitch - sorry to hear about your injury. Have you been to see the doctor? Is this something that's likely to heal with time? Seriously, prior to this you're saying you would have been picking at 140bpm with downstrokes only!?

No havent been to the doc, cant afford it and at the time thought nothing of it. It banged my elbow into a corner of a door jam, it was numb for a little while, but just figured I had hit my "funny bone" hard. That was until I tried doing my usual thing nearly a month later and the pain in my elbow started to swell back in as I played and my hand seemed to miss some of the commands I was giving it. It was like it would lock up for a split second and so Id miss a note. Its getting better.

As far as all down strokes at 140, thats moderate for me. Thats only just over 2 beats per second, which isnt that bad. I can go a lot faster, even still, just for not as long, but as my arm heals, the stamina is returning, just not fast enough. My top speed all down strokes "was" a little faster than Master of Puppets, which I play all down strokes, some times a little faster than originally recorded, which if played slightly faster would be around 190 to 200. The original tempo is around 180. I "used" to be able to do that for 5 to 6 minutes at a time with very little fatigue, rest for 1 to 2 minutes, then do it all over again. Now, I can get 5 to 6 minutes, but thats it until my arms rested about 30 to 45 minutes in between. In addition to making the recording process Im doing right now loooong, depending on how our set is arranged live, it becomes difficult then as well, but live Ive just gotta roll with the punches and hope no one notices or alternate pick where I can.

[Cliff]

Hey Benoa - I know what you mean about the plateau and lack of practice time. It almost seems like you have to invest *lots* of time to improve dramatically, the amount of time one would invest if this were a full time job. Ah, if only I'd been this conscientious when I was young. I've been putting in too much time as it is, and neglecting my family, and now I'm getting some flak for it The funny thing is, I don't feel like I can play much faster than before I started, but I'm sure what I do play is now much more solid and fluid. So it's definitely been a good thing.
You'll laugh when I tell you, but I've been struggling with exercises 140 and 141 (mostly 141 to be fair). I've also been trying one or two other exercises each night just to keep things interesting. There's so many cool melodic ideas in here that take me well outside the sort of patterns I'd normally play.
Twitch - glad to hear your arm's on the mend. I was getting mixed up about the downstroke stuff - I was talking about 16ths, so I thought you were playing over 8 notes a second with downstrokes.

[javert]

As far as all down strokes at 140, thats moderate for me. Thats only just over 2 beats per second, which isnt that bad. I can go a lot faster, even still, just for not as long, but as my arm heals, the stamina is returning, just not fast enough. My top speed all down strokes "was" a little faster than Master of Puppets, which I play all down strokes, some times a little faster than originally recorded, which if played slightly faster would be around 190 to 200. The original tempo is around 180. I "used" to be able to do that for 5 to 6 minutes at a time with very little fatigue, rest for 1 to 2 minutes, then do it all over again. Now, I can get 5 to 6 minutes, but thats it until my arms rested about 30 to 45 minutes in between. In addition to making the recording process Im doing right now loooong, depending on how our set is arranged live, it becomes difficult then as well, but live Ive just gotta roll with the punches and hope no one notices or alternate pick where I can.

Isn't Master 110 BPM with 16th notes or 220 BPM with 8ths or something like that? In that case this would be significantly slower than in the Stetina exercises.

[javert]

Ah, Cliff, you beat me to it...

As for your comments, Cliff, I think that aside from mastering the mechanical side of things in isolation, it also requires a lot of training to integrate it in your playing. After I had practiced those exercises for a long time, I started working on using it all in my playing and combining things. I planned to eventually go back and practice technique again using the book, but it never transpired

[Twitch]

Isn't Master 110 BPM with 16th notes or 220 BPM with 8ths or something like that? In that case this would be significantly slower than in the Stetina exercises.

I see your point here, uh, to better explain myself I guess, I can down stroke 200 to 220 notes per minute when palm muting, would be an odd thing to do for a whole minute straight, but used to could. Any more than that and alternate picking is needed. Luckily though, you usually only have to do it for a few seconds at a time. Were talking chugging away on an open string though. My fret hand fingers can reach that speed but not in sync with my picking hand so when doing a scale that fast, its hammer on and pull off time. I guess I misunderstood what you guys were saying. 16ths at a 140 would be very difficult even alternate picking.

[BenoA]

Hey Benoa - I know what you mean about the plateau and lack of practice time. It almost seems like you have to invest *lots* of time to improve dramatically, the amount of time one would invest if this were a full time job.

Yes, indeed. I would not put 8 hours a day on this but 2 to 3 would make me improve a lot, I'm quite sure.

Ah, if only I'd been this conscientious when I was young.

BANG! You just hit the nail right on the head. I said it earlier in that post. I'm sure I bought that book like 20 years ago... But never really looked at it.

I've been putting in too much time as it is, and neglecting my family, and now I'm getting some flak for it

How much is too much in your case?

I've barely put more than 45 minutes a day recently. But when this whole thing started a few weeks back, I was able to invest like 1h30 a day.

Now I'm getting frustrated as I've hit a "plateau" and even worst, my band is about to restart and I won't have as much time to invest as I will have to practice/learn new tunes for it...

The funny thing is, I don't feel like I can play much faster than before I started, but I'm sure what I do play is now much more solid and fluid. So it's definitely been a good thing.

Solid, yes... Fluid, not much yet on my side. But I'd say that I'm getting more confident about my playing as it's getting more solid. And as you said: "it's definitely been a good thing."

You'll laugh when I tell you, but I've been struggling with exercises 140 and 141 (mostly 141 to be fair). I've also been trying one or two other exercises each night just to keep things interesting. There's so many cool melodic ideas in here that take me well outside the sort of patterns I'd normally play.

No I won't laugh. Don't worry. The single string exercises are still killing. And those mechanics ones too.

[Cliff]

A friend of mine whose playing I've always admired greatly once said that 'taste always exceeds technique'. I translate that as: the better you get, the more you're able to find fault with what you can do, and the more ambitious you become about what you want to be able to do.
I've been putting in 2-3 hours every night, at least. Plus more at the weekends. Practicing has almost become an end in itself, rather than a means to making music. I do wonder how this will integrate into my normal playing. But then again, I'm not in a band, I very rarely jam, so there's no such thing as 'normal' playing. I learnt how to play some fast scales and tapping etc a long time ago, but whenever I got to jam with someone, I'd end up playing twelve-bar blues and pentatonics - I didn't have the musicality to use anything beyond that. I like the fact that Stetina's book has a segment on using all this stuff to make music, but I think I'm a *long* way from getting to that point.

[Trem]

I find that when watching someone play or like between a few bands at a show, if there is someone who is technically shredding away but it doesn't add or do anything for the music it's played over, and then the next guy in the next band is less technically proficient yet plays tastefully and enhances the music it's played over that that person is much more enjoyable to listen to and overall leaves a better impression and is more impressive.

[BenoA]

A friend of mine whose playing I've always admired greatly once said that 'taste always exceeds technique'. I translate that as: the better you get, the more you're able to find fault with what you can do, and the more ambitious you become about what you want to be able to do.

Interesting statement. In my case, it's not that I want to be the next Gilbert/Malmsteen but I would just like to be able to play those quick parts more cleanly... I know my way to cheat but after all those years playing, I would just like to move my playing a notch above. And I don't know why it is so difficult.

I've been putting in 2-3 hours every night, at least. Plus more at the weekends. Practicing has almost become an end in itself, rather than a means to making music. I do wonder how this will integrate into my normal playing. But then again, I'm not in a band, I very rarely jam, so there's no such thing as 'normal' playing.

Wow impressive my friend. 2-3 hours a day. Congratz. You should hear/see some definitive improvments over the coming weeks. Keep us posted on your progress. And to keep the challenge fun, don't forget to learn a few songs/tunes, start applying your new knowledge into something fun.
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Had a real bad evening yesterday. We're auditionning 2 good singers tonite, so I started my practice routine by rewiewing quickly the tunes we're going to use to check those 2 guys. I try to play standing up when practicing my band's tune. Once that done, I moved to my new exercises regiment but tried to do it standing up. Ouch! A bit more difficult than when I was doing them sitting. Anyone else having issues with this when comparing their playing sitting/stand up position?
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Other issues is that I had to slow down tempo (again). I could not hit my regular max BPM.

Ah well... Sounds you gotta keep into it and keep trying. But I think this is the most difficult part of all of it.

[Cliff]

I've actually been trying to learn Santana's 'Smooth' off-and-on for a few weeks now, but it's been taking a back seat to the exercises. Also, it's not really a good test of these new skills. (An excellent challenge for my poor sense of rhythm, though.)
Like you, I have good nights and bad. After what you said, I tried doing the exercises standing up tonight, fully expecting to be disappointed. Twitch advised me to play standing up a few months ago - I did it for a little bit, then forgot about it, but while I was doing it, I definitely found it was harder on the fretting hand. Tonight, though, it seemed to work out alright - maybe a little less accurate in places, but I'm pretty happy overall. I'm not trying to play as fast as I can though (I'm playing them all at 89bpm), so I expect it'd be different if I was.
Your technique's way more advanced than mine, so maybe you probably know this already, but there have been occasional times when I've been able to play much faster than normal. So far as I can tell, when this happens I have a much lighter touch. In fact, the reason why I went back to a slower tempo was to try and learn this lightness of touch at a slower speed and build on it. Of course, I've since forgotten that, and I'm busy playing them all again in my usual heavy-handed way, which works fine at these sort of tempos
Which exercises in particular are giving you the most problems, and at what sort of speeds?
At any rate, please keep it at it - I'm sure you'll get past that plateau in no time. In fact, concentrating on playing with the band may do you some good. I've hit plateaus many times in the past; this is probably the longest period I've gone where I've felt like I'm constantly improving (setbacks in speed of the exercises aside). My current idea for avoiding the inevitable plateau involves a three-pronged attack: practice then, when that gets boring, learn a new tune then, when that gets boring, have fun just messing around, then finally back to the practice. And maybe through in some messing with amp settings and finding a good tone, just for good measure.

[micha]

Anyone else noticed how much of a pain in the ass this is?

But I see some progress here and there. I was able to add about 30BPM to the legato exercises as #6 or #7 and my arms don't feel quite as heavy afterwards...
For picking, I really didn't do huge steps regarding speed. I was able to add a couple of BPM here and there, but it doesn't take as much effort to play that way as it used to.
My picking got a bit lighter, the movement is a whole lot smaller, I don't cramp out fingers 2-4 on my right hand anymore when picking faster, and I noticed I move my whole hand a lot more when changing strings, which allows me to keep my picking angle even.
A logical thing actually, but I feel like it really took these stupid (and by now also boring) single string exercises to make my picking hand behave that way.

How are you guys doing?

And I thought about how many repetitions do you do when practising these exercises?
I usually start at 80BPM and go up to whatever speed I can do, always increasing speed by a metronome step after a set of playing once on each string.
But right now I added a couple of exercises, I'm working on 7 now, and max speed usually is somewhere between 120 and 160BPM, which means between 60 and 100 repetitions on each exercise.
Oh well, this is really time consuming, and starts to get boring as well...
I thought about increasing my beginning speed to lower the number of repetitions, since I feel like I'm tired already when I reach the speeds where things get interesting, but so far I'm afraid I still really need to build up the movements from a slow tempo on, so I don't fall back into my old bad habits again.

So what's your method?

[Twitch]

I know this is the SPEED and Technique thread, but Ive been having fun with blues lately. I find while the runs arent necessarily fast, technique is a must at slower speeds. Missed and half executed notes are more apparent at slower speeds.

Heres something I did yesterday, just screwing around. Im really having fun with it just because of how blues is all scale based, so being stuck in the box like I normally seem to be, is how its done.

http://www.soundclick.com/player/single_player.cfm?q=hi&songID=10989115

[BenoA]

Good job Twitch! Is this the ENGL?

On my side, I've stopped for the past 2 weeks. Started a new job and also been asked to join a "Poison Tribute Band" (OK please don't laugh!!!).

I'm meeting with the guys next week for an audition. Been learning 10 tunes and it's been quite a challenge but I'm having a lot of fun.

But... All spare time left is spent working on those tunes so I put aside the "Stetina's exercices"...

[Twitch]

Yeah, its the ENGL, dont be put off by the tone though. I purposefully made it obnoxious for the NAD thread. I was using single coils on the high lead channel. You know, its supposed to be a metal amp.

[Cliff]

I've had to stop also: been trying to rest, since I've been getting some RSI-style aches in the wrists, arms, fingers, shoulders, neck...
I did find it a pain in the ass at times - I was practicing every night, and sometimes I was thinking 'do I really have to?' - but most of the time I enjoyed it, so long as I felt I was making progress of some sort. I fully intend to get back into it.
Regarding repetitions, the thing that worked best for me was the method Stetina outlines on page 17. So if on a given day I'd hit 120bpm with exercise 25, the next day I'd start 20bpm slower, then move up by 2, down by 1, until I reached my limit, then worked from 20bpm slower than that the next night. For any given speed, I'd do the exercise for very few repetitions - just until I felt I was more or less comfortable with the quality.
Having said all that, I reset the clock on myself two or three times and restarted at 80bpm, because each time I felt that I'd got to a point where the quality just wasn't there, and I realized I hadn't been practicing a technique that was sustainable at higher speeds.
Before the break, I was playing every night, worried that if I let the practice slip, everything I'd learned would vanish. Stupid really: if it was going to vanish, that means I hadn't really learnt anything of lasting value. Anyway, after a week's break, I was pleased to find that I could play more or less as well as I could beforehand.
I think overall I've benefited most from the legato exercises. I've been concentrating on #1 and #8, and I've found that my pinky is much stronger, I play much more on my finger tips, which means I have fewer problems with my fingers generating noise from hitting the wrong strings, and at speed - on a good day - I see that my fingers really are lifting only a little off the fretboard.
My picking - though much better - still sucks. (As does my rhythm.) I thought I'd got the 5 picking mechanics up to 105bpm or so, but listening closer, I realized they're pretty sloppy. Last night I tried #51 (mechanic #1) again, and found it was quite a struggle to make it clean and even at just 70bpm. What I ended up doing was just damping with the left hand, which meant I was free to really watch the right. I then tried to concentrate on making the picking as light and short as possible and, as you said, moving my hand as I went from string to string. That seemed to get me somewhere.