Why don't scales help me?

[chuckbat]

I've been playing since I was 15, now I'm 42 (do the math). I took lessons for about 6 months when I was in high school the rest I picked up off CD's and magazines. Why don't scales stick in my head? I can play some lead. But have always been more of a rythm player. Hetfield was my idol in the day. (Kill 'em All, Lightning, Master, etc...) Is it too late to put effort into learning scales? What is the best way to remember them?

Thanks

[Axegrinder87]

Repetition repetition repetition.

[Trem]

Playing them over and over again....eh, that's all i got, lol.

Edit:
Erm yeah Axegrinder got it in first...

[Axegrinder87]

Best advice I can give, focus on ONE thing at a time.

Example:

I'm a metal guy. 90% of my solos are in the key of E. 90% of those are Minor.

Guess what I practice mostly?

[chuckbat]

Best advice I can give, focus on ONE thing at a time.

Example:

I'm a metal guy. 90% of my solos are in the key of E. 90% of those are Minor.

Guess what I practice mostly?

Thanks for the ideas. I like the way you put the E minor thing in there.

[Musician78]

I do the same thing. Find a sons you like to jam to and find which scale works with it and just improvise. I learned E Harmonic Minor jamming to Cease to Exist by Tristania. I think it is in E Melodic Minor but it worked. The whole time I was learning it, I would have a reverse scale finder on the computer which gave me a visual list of all the notes in that scale.

Also if you have no idea what scale/key you should be doing, figure out some of the notes in the song, plug them into the reverse scale finder and when you have 4 or so notes plugged in, it will tell you what key/scale you are in and show you all the notes for it. This is how I do it. Going through books and practicing scales is too tedious for me.

Sorry for any grammatical and/or spelling errors. I typed this on my iPhone.

[Richard W]

Cliche; but just practice more and more.

[KevinDguitar]

It would help to learn a single scale/key frame work.. the above E minor is a great guitar friendly key.. its also G Major.. same key.. same notes... start with just learning E minor (natural minor/Aeolian mode) in the open position with the root on the low E string and also an octave higher in the 12th fret position.. again root on the sixth string.. after you get real comfy with those then pick up the E minor pattern in the 7 position with a root on the fifth string..
practice combining that with your five pentatonic cages in that key.. that's a pretty good spring board into filling in the gaps..
another thing you can do is print off blank neck diagrams.. then everyday, once a day for a week.. pick a key.. again, in this case E minor.. and practice filling in all the notes for that key on the blank neck diagram.. each week, pick a different key.
These might help get you started. Let me know if I can do anything to help you with this.

[chuckbat]

I do the same thing. Find a sons you like to jam to and find which scale works with it and just improvise. I learned E Harmonic Minor jamming to Cease to Exist by Tristania. I think it is in E Melodic Minor but it worked. The whole time I was learning it, I would have a reverse scale finder on the computer which gave me a visual list of all the notes in that scale.

Also if you have no idea what scale/key you should be doing, figure out some of the notes in the song, plug them into the reverse scale finder and when you have 4 or so notes plugged in, it will tell you what key/scale you are in and show you all the notes for it. This is how I do it. Going through books and practicing scales is too tedious for me.

Sorry for any grammatical and/or spelling errors. I typed this on my iPhone.

Thanks. Sounds like great info. I'll google reverse scale

[chuckbat]

It would help to learn a single scale/key frame work.. the above E minor is a great guitar friendly key.. its also G Major.. same key.. same notes... start with just learning E minor (natural minor/Aeolian mode) in the open position with the root on the low E string and also an octave higher in the 12th fret position.. again root on the sixth string.. after you get real comfy with those then pick up the E minor pattern in the 7 position with a root on the fifth string..
practice combining that with your five pentatonic cages in that key.. that's a pretty good spring board into filling in the gaps..
another thing you can do is print off blank neck diagrams.. then everyday, once a day for a week.. pick a key.. again, in this case E minor.. and practice filling in all the notes for that key on the blank neck diagram.. each week, pick a different key.
These might help get you started. Let me know if I can do anything to help you with this.

Wow !! Thanks for the great tips. That is some awesome stuff.

Chuck

[chrisf]

How about Andrew Wasson's take on SuperChops:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KG0E9ox2HrU&safety_mode=true&persist_safety_mode=1&safe=active

He studied SuperChops under Howard Roberts at GIT and simplified it a bit here... I found it useful.

[dvscool]

For me the best thing was (well, still is) finding backing tracks to solo over and knowing what key I’m in. So it’s not so much that I can tell you every single note I’m playing when I solo (or what scale) but I sure as hell know my way around the fret board in any given key. What sounds right, generally is right. Scale or no scale. Now if you have no ear, then this may not apply.

Practice sounds like a cliché but is the absolute key to shredding.

An YES, THERES STILL TIME !!!

[chuckbat]

For me the best thing was (well, still is) finding backing tracks to solo over and knowing what key I’m in. So it’s not so much that I can tell you every single note I’m playing when I solo (or what scale) but I sure as hell know my way around the fret board in any given key. What sounds right, generally is right. Scale or no scale. Now if you have no ear, then this may not apply.

Practice sounds like a cliché but is the absolute key to shredding.

An YES, THERES STILL TIME !!!

Thanks dv. I have no problem soloing with a blues type or modified blues scale in any key. I trained my ear by learning off tapes and cd's for years, still do as amatter of fact. Just want to broaden the horizons and get some more knowledge.

[ginsambo]

You have to have a point of reference, its like learning anything, if you can't remember how it sounds on the board or in your head, it will be hard to remember. The key to it, like modes and that, is getting stoked enough over how they sound over a chord progression so that it inspires enough interest to remember them. It would pay to have just a few extra lessons or hitch up with someone who is up with it to understand how they sound. I know I need to.

You can just learn them, if you aren't fretboard dyslexic, which it sounds like you might be, I don't know, but I reckon just learning them, even in all positions still doesn't reveal their magic potential as much as hearing them over chords. In fact if you learn them photographically like that, you are more likely to slip into generic scale progression and derived riffs and phrases that fit because your fingers are on auto pilot, which doesn't really grant you a lot of freedom and you become a slave to it and the best you'll acheive is a few weird links now and then between passages...this accounts for 99% of non pro players out there.

But as well as learning scales in all positions, you have to learn, by ear at least how to make chords out of them and how they associate with a chord progression associated with the scale. Easy to say I know,. but the key to it is learning how they sound over chords. Learning them out of context for the sake of it makes no sense to me, unless you are practicing finger exercises or something, its completely random. If you can remember how they sound and the mood they might create, you'll remember them and work the notes out. If you can learn them in your head first, its not too hard to put that to the board whatever position you are in...but then remembering them on the board...well that is where the dyslexia kicks in again...lol.

Seriously I'd get some classical lessons, it will save you months of time and with your history, you'll progress really fast on scales and arpegios if you practice...alot... and go in knowing what you want to be taught, particularly the relevance of them! Sometimes just the embarassment of paying someone to teach you, whilst you haven't done your homework is enough to get ones ass in gear....lol

Its not the scale, everyone can play scales, its how its applied. Agree with the what sounds right, you can spend a lifetime learning different scales and sometimes they still don't sound right for what you want to convey.

[chuckbat]

got home from work, started learning E harmonic minor at the open, 7th, and 12th position...cool..started moving it around and joining like the 7th and 12th positions. very cool..also got me coming up with different rhythms..

thanks