What makes great players? How does it happen?

[jgcable]

You have to find the right pick!

Edit: seriously though, what it takes is practice and playing - lots and lots of practice and playing. You can and will get to where you want to be if you stick with it.

I agree with the practice and playing part but I don't agree that you can get where you want to be if you stick with it. I think you need natural musical ability too. I gave guitar lessons for close to 20 years and I saw 2 types of players.. on the rare occasion I would stumble on a gifted natural with obsessive compulsive behavior who sucked up every bit of every lesson like a sponge and the more typical player who didn't have any musical ability and had trouble with everything musical. I also noticed that the gifted natural players usually had played another instrument or instruments prior to the guitar, they could sing and they were generally on the smart side. On the flip side, the typical players were more concerned on the type of guitar they played, the type of amp they played through and they were obsessed with certain monster players or bands. Its weird... the typical hack players always had the biggest dreams. Little "Johnny" with no musical ability at all and barely knew how to tune his guitar or play a bar chord was the one who wanted to learn George Lynch guitar solo's. The players with the natural ability were happy to learn any style.

[RR2772]

In shorth nothing but feel! That makes it great in peoples ears and minds with time. You can be as technical or as sloppy as you want. If it does not feel right within the music you are playing then the test of time will it make sound dated. That is mostly why any new releases or bootlegs of Hendrix always matters versus Vai and Satch who is basically only for the guitar crowd. With greatness you can feel it. When you are listning or seing a guitar player somewhere.

So you are the guitarplayer? Any great? Well most people seems to like it.

[jgcable]

In shorth nothing but feel! That makes it great in peoples ears and minds with time. You can be as technical or as sloppy as you want. If it does not feel right within the music you are playing then the test of time will it make sound dated. That is mostly why any new releases or bootlegs of Hendrix always matters versus Vai and Satch who is basically only for the guitar crowd. With greatness you can feel it. When you are listning or seing a guitar player somewhere.

So you are the guitarplayer? Any great? Well most people seems to like it.

My band plays live just about every weekend. Its just a local bar band doing everything from Ratt and Ozzy to Dokken to Nugent to AIC to STP to The Black Crowes. The band is pretty popular and we have gigs booked through 2014. Most people that come to see us consider me a "great" guitar player. Most of my friends who play guitar consider me at the top of the local food chain but the reason isn't because I excel at one style but rather I can play every style convincingly, smoothly and with as much feel as is required. I know many local players who are better than I am in certain genre's for instance one of my good friends is possibly the best Clapton player I have ever heard yet he can't play metal. I know a guy who can shred all day long ala Malmsteen but he can't play a stitch of classic rock.. he doesn't even know how to dial in the tone for it. I know a guy who is a Vai clone but he can hardly play if he doesn't have a double locking trem and a massive amount of gain and delay. That's what I admire about Paul Gilbert and Guthrie Govan. They are 2 examples of truly great players in my book. They can play anything and everything. People consider me a great player but its all relative to what great really is. OK.... I am a great local bar player. Whoopie!

[Jacksons Rock]

I agree with the practice and playing part but I don't agree that you can get where you want to be if you stick with it. I think you need natural musical ability too. I gave guitar lessons for close to 20 years and I saw 2 types of players.. on the rare occasion I would stumble on a gifted natural with obsessive compulsive behavior who sucked up every bit of every lesson like a sponge and the more typical player who didn't have any musical ability and had trouble with everything musical. I also noticed that the gifted natural players usually had played another instrument or instruments prior to the guitar, they could sing and they were generally on the smart side. On the flip side, the typical players were more concerned on the type of guitar they played, the type of amp they played through and they were obsessed with certain monster players or bands. Its weird... the typical hack players always had the biggest dreams. Little "Johnny" with no musical ability at all and barely knew how to tune his guitar or play a bar chord was the one who wanted to learn George Lynch guitar solo's. The players with the natural ability were happy to learn any style.

Glad I never had you as a teacher. Did the majority of your students with no talent know that you secretly looked down on them? Did you spend enough time with them or were they good enough? You sound bitter and full of yourself. Maybe your students had trouble with anything musical because of their teacher. You sound like the kind of teacher people should steer clear of. I bet your ego walks in the door ten minutes before you do - it's THAT big.

[Jacksons Rock]

My band plays live just about every weekend. Its just a local bar band doing everything from Ratt and Ozzy to Dokken to Nugent to AIC to STP to The Black Crowes. The band is pretty popular and we have gigs booked through 2014. Most people that come to see us consider me a "great" guitar player. Most of my friends who play guitar consider me at the top of the local food chain but the reason isn't because I excel at one style but rather I can play every style convincingly, smoothly and with as much feel as is required. I know many local players who are better than I am in certain genre's for instance one of my good friends is possibly the best Clapton player I have ever heard yet he can't play metal. I know a guy who can shred all day long ala Malmsteen but he can't play a stitch of classic rock.. he doesn't even know how to dial in the tone for it. I know a guy who is a Vai clone but he can hardly play if he doesn't have a double locking trem and a massive amount of gain and delay. That's what I admire about Paul Gilbert and Guthrie Govan. They are 2 examples of truly great players in my book. They can play anything and everything. People consider me a great player but its all relative to what great really is. OK.... I am a great local bar player. Whoopie!

I, I, I, me, me, me, me, me. Wow, I think we have the infamous narcissistic guitarists ego on full display here. It is truly an ugly thing to witness. Who are you trying to convince of your greatness? Us, or you?

I doubt you are even 1/4th as good as you think or say you are. I know you keep saying that other people think you are great. C'mon, do they really? Or is it the alcohol talking at the bars you hop?

You sure do look down on other people and their playing, this much is obvious. I think it speaks to your feelings of inadequacy. If you were truly as good as you say/think you are, you would not want nor feel the need to do that. You mention that you can't play as well as some of your friends in certain areas yet somehow you are still better than they are.

[Jacksons Rock]

Here's how...

You have to be born with a natural musical ability and then you have to practice your ass off and dedicate almost your entire existence to your instrument. Some people would call that obsessive compulsive behavior. Thats exactly what it is. All the great players have it.

Ask yourself... do you think that Hendrix didn't play every waking moment? Some people think that he sat around and got wasted and jammed out once in a while. Some people think that Eddy Van Halen was born with a guitar in his hand and already knew how to play it. Some people think that Malmsteen just sits around and eats donuts and drives Ferrari's or that Keith Richards is too stoned to know what he is doing or that Eric Clapton was beamed down from heaven and doesn't really need to practice that much.

Thats it.

If you aren't a great player you don't possess any natural ability or didn't do one of the 2 things above.

I am happy I was able to clear that up for all my JCF bro's.

Why did you even post this question when you already knew the answers to your question? According to your subsequent posts, you already knew the answer!!!! You just wanted accolades! You want to speak of how great you are!

Give me a break!

[Scooter]

Wait for it......

[ginsambo]

The thing is. Music is like swimming, sailing, languages, mechanics, being practically minded and everything else. If you learn intonation and rhythm and singing early on and are surrounded by others making music from a very early age, when your brain is still developing and is like a sponge, then despite want you may sing like, you are pretty much set for being a musician. I mean, the rest is down to your willingness, perserverance and originality.

Even if you don't learn, if you were exposed to musical influences and people on a very regularly basis you will still have an edge over others.

I didn't learn to swim until I was 15 and I am useless at it, I might be able to save myself from drowning for a 50m stretch but that is it. I have tried employing a number of guys for my work. They talk the talk and seem capable, but as soon as they start work it is eveident that they are completely useless and either never had an interest in practical things as a kid, or worse, were locked away in a flat all their childhood, like a rescue dog and never had a platform to learn and hone their skills. Seriously, guys that cannot even cut lumber with a jacksaw, let alone cut it straight by eye. It is seriously worrying.

Another example is women from the Phillipines. They all sing and dance and sing and sing and sing from a very early age, it's part of the culture and the women are some of the most annoying on the planet. But, because they do it, they can all more or less sing pretty well, hold a rhythm and a tune.

It is also an interesting point that people carry stuff from their childhood until the day they die. I know a few people who will point blank not sing because they were humilated in school and told that they will never be allowed to join the choir. Obviously if you had a bad childhood, it doesn't bod well for you in life. You can overcome these hangups, but it takes an incredible amount of mental strength, self belief and superhuman energy which most of us don't have.

So these two points have a lot to do with forming you as a musician in later life I reckon. Of course with great mental apptitude and application and an open mind and an ear for every little detail and a very self critical disposition you can overcome them, but they do give you one hell of an advantage.

[ginsambo]

And there are so many little isms to playing a stringed instrument that how anyone can regard themselves or anyone else as the greatest is beyond me. Diffeent things will appeal to different people. Rhythm, intonation and playing assertively can be taught I reckon but takes a great degree of private practice to gel. If students are not progressing when paying for lessons themselves, then the teacher ain't no good IMO and ain't teaching them the right basic avenues to explore and blocks to build upon or the kids are just not practicing enough.

Everyone on the planet could get Grade 8 in the Trinity Colege of Music Exams over here in the UK if they tried hard enough. However, how well you play and the flaour with which you play and your taste, originality, style and fluency cannot be taught.

Case in point - girls. Girls make excellent students and learn guitar just as well as they learn everything else. Leagues ahead of boys. However 99.999999% of girls lack any flair or creativity, strength, soul or blues rock chatter.

Malmsteen does eat too many donuts though eh.

I regularly shred the face off highshool girls. They bow down to my naked and instinctual soulful awesomeness, although they themselves are actually far more accomplished musicians. Girls don't dance with the devil you see.

[ginsambo]

Actually in retrospect, I agree with JgCable, although he did come over a bit narcissistically.

The truth is we live in a want it all and want it now, money for nothing age, where ego, money and talking bollocks rule supreme. Look at YouTube heroes. Kids just don't put the hours in and they expect the same results. The irony is that there are more free resources about than there ever was when I was a kid when we used to put records on 16rpm or wear out cassette tapes and the internet, personal laptops, downloadable free tab editor software,free online lessons and slowed down versions and cheap music didn't even exist. Music is like a never ending story and you get better logarythmically. If you can't get up to a basic grade, because your ego or life gets in the way, then you never progress and you shouldn't expect to.

But there are three sides to it, an ear for tone, an ear for rhythm and a technical side.

[BenoA]

I think Ginsambo sums it up here: Of course with great mental apptitude and application and an open mind and an ear for every little detail and a very self critical disposition you can overcome them, but they do give you one hell of an advantage. Very interesting reply. Here is my 2 cents for what it's worth... D

From what I have noticed over all my years of trying to master the guitar, I do believe that you need to have some sort of musical ability (at some point), you gotta also practice a lot (I really mean a lot) and that when you are practicing, you gotta stay focused! You gotta stick to it with a serious dedication. Some good coaching here and there also helps as it can bring you on the right track if you're doing something wrong.


In my case, I know I have a lot of problem staying focused when working on an exercise or even when learning a tune. I get disturbed quite easily and start noodling and jamming. It's even worst when I'm tired. I also get discouraged easily when hitting a "plateau" and feeling not improving. I know some personnality will use this as a "kick-in-the-butt-kinda-thing" but for me, it drives me nuts!


Recently, I was looking for ideas and had to dig into some old tapes I had done back when I was just starting out. I sadly noticed that I haven't evolved much "technicaly" in the last 20 years. Oh well... :think:

@jgcable I also play "live" a few times a year, I've been back into the band thing since around 2001. Sinc then, I've played with various type of guitar players of various talent degree.

One thing I noticed are those type of players that can play difficult solos note for note but can not play a decent pentatonic run to save their butt during an impromptu jam. This goes beyond my understanding.

[had to add this to my post] Ever met those basement players with lotsa talent that can play with a band? They either play too loud, or get drown in the band mix as they are expecting the whole band thing to sound like when they are playing alone to their jam track? Or even worst, they can follow a drummer or play the riffs at the right time and get lost in trying to follow the rest of the band.

But at least I acquired some kind of "personnal confidence". I don't care much about my sound as I used to do and can save my evening with some pentatonic runs if I'm stuck when playing out with my band.

Finaly, there is the "fun" factor. You gotta get some out of it. Again, I've met very players that had reached their goal and dropped out of it to move to something else. For me, the battle is still going on strong and I have many many things still to learn... So it keeps the rock'n roll flame alive for me.

[Chad]

I consider myself an average player with little natural, in-born ability. I didn't start playing until I was almost 20 years old. Whatever I have is mostly there because I wanted it, had the drive in my heart, and have stuck it out. Yet I am in a band and replaced one of the best guitar players in the region. Why? Because I learn the freegin' songs. Because I am not lazy. Because I show up to practices. Because I show up to practices on time. Because I take the band seriously. Because I am open minded and easy to get along with. Because I am not a "drama" person. Because I am not an ego-maniac. Because I keep a good attitude and consider bandmates family. Because I am not a drunk or druggie. And on and on.

My point? To some degree being "great" has nothing to do with actual talent and ability on the instrument. It's what you do with what you have. Not how far what you have can take you.

[BenoA]

I am in a band and replaced one of the best guitar players in the region. Why? Because I learn the freegin' songs. Because I am not lazy. Because I show up to practices. Because I show up to practices on time. Because I take the band seriously. Because I am open minded and easy to get along with. Because I am not a "drama" person. Because I am not an ego-maniac. Because I keep a good attitude and consider bandmates family. Because I am not a drunk or druggie. And on and on.

My point? To some degree being "great" has nothing to do with actual talent and ability on the instrument. It's what you do with what you have. Not how far what you have can take you.

Seen from that point, I'm with you 110% Chad!!! That means, we're 2 in the same boat. Can I join your club?

[jgcable]

Why did you even post this question when you already knew the answers to your question? According to your subsequent posts, you already knew the answer!!!! You just wanted accolades! You want to speak of how great you are!

Give me a break!

You shouldn't even be allowed to respond to this thread. You have no idea who you are talking to. NOOB.....

[jgcable]

And.... to summarize my post.... its fairly pathetic that a 51 year old shredder from the 80's is still considered at the top of the food chain in the VERY active local club scene that I am in. I am that 51 year old shredder. I wanted to point out what you need to do in order to get to what would be considered a high level player. Most players nowadays take the easy way out, they want instant gratification and they aren't willing to put the hard work in. When I started playing there were nothing but records. I would sit in front of the turntable and drop the needle until the record wore out. I was playing a Sears Silvertone guitar that was $69.00 including the amp with action so high I would have to crazy glue the cuts on my finger tips. It was REALLY hard to sound good. It was even harder to play good but that's how most of us old school shredders from the late 70's and early 80's did it. You want to know the current state of guitar playing? Go to a GC and prepare to run out screaming. Go to a local club and watch the guitar players in these bands. More times than not they have decent to good tone and NO CHOPS at all. I should be a washed up slow playing old man on stage. Well.. I am an old man but I am anything from washed up or slow. I can play anything, any style and any genre of music because I practice my ass off all the time. I am always learning. Have been for 36 years. And.. I will conclude with the following statement which is something that all my JCF bro's look forward to so here it goes..... "I HAVE NEVER NOT BEEN IN A GIGGING BAND FOR THE LAST 36 YEARS!!!" You guys are welcome!