need help with fast rhythm playing

[Fragle]

hi all

i need some advice concerning fast rhythm stuff. firstly, my maximum picking speed is very limited (i max out at 190bpm 16th notes). furthermore, even at that speed i tense up after a while trying to keep it consistent. this is also my maximum picking speed when soloing (legato i can go much faster). of course, it is insufficient for me, beeing the death/thrash/black metal player i am.
i think i'm going to try playing straight 16th notes at the low e string to the metronome, at first set to 150bpm or so....i wonder how fast i am after a few weeks of doing this. if i can get past 190 without tensing up, it's ok, but if not...well....i guess i did something wrong.

i wonder what you guys can tell me about playing fast rhythms, and preventing tension. should i pick the same what like i pick when soloing, should i pick soft or hard, should i keep my hand closed or open, should i "anchor" my pinky (like i do when soloing), or what. any kind of input is greatly appreciated, because this issue really upsets me. our band writes fast stuff (not insanely fast, but around that 180-200bpm zone), and after a while it becomes really difficult to keep up with it.....needless to say that i dont want to write slower stuff...i guess i'd fall asleep while headbanging if i do so ^^

so once again, please tell me everything you know, how you do it, and so on.

greets
fragle

[j2379]

Re: need help with fast rhythm playing

relax, & use what is most comfortable. dont hold the pick so tight. maybe try a small jazz pick

[Fragle]

Re: need help with fast rhythm playing

i already went through countless types of picks and ended up using either a dunlop 1,5mm pick or a jazz III (black). i found the jazz to feel more comfortable for soloing, while the 1,5mm is better for tight aggressive downstroke rhythm stuff (and sweeping-imo)

ah, and i dont really hold the pick very tight. basically just tight enough to keep it from getting stuck while picking

greets
fragle

[shredmonster]

Re: need help with fast rhythm playing

Tough issue.
If it were me, I would first keep painstakingly trying to increase speed. Sometimes you just have to play until you are so fatigued you literally can't move your muscles anymore. Kind of like weightlifting - that how I look at guitar playing.
Try keeping up with music that is faster than you can play.
I don't think there is anyway around this process.
Seriously try drinking like 3 cups of coffee before you practice - athletes do this all the time.

Also, you could try concentrating on the movement of various joints in your picking technique - including fingers, wrist, elbow and shoulder. They are all used and some guys can pick faster just using their wrist while others use thier whole arm. I would not anchor at first - you have to use muscles for that which will stiffen you up IMHO.
I have one friend who when he picks in various rhythms will sort of move his joints to the rhythm he is picking - speeding up and slowing down instead of picking at a constant pace. Hard to explain unless you see it done but he uses all his joints to various degrees and uses his shoulder alot more than I do. I pick more from the wrist and I can pick damn fast but that is just my method.
I think the Jazz III pick is an excellent choice.

You may also consider increasing the gauge of your lower register strings. They will be stiffer and thicker. The stiffness may get you a little more pushback against he pick going from one string to another. The thicker gauge will decrease the distance between the strings which may add a little to your speed.
Just like in racing or any competetive sport the little things you do to make small improvements and adjustments can make a huge difference at the end of the race.

Finally, you may consider modifying some of your rhythms in the songs - finding ways of slowing down in certain parts to give yourself a break or rest while not taking away from the sound of the music.

[Fragle]

Re: need help with fast rhythm playing

well.....seems like i'll learn some early slayer stuff [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

i use different strings on each of my guitars, and i found that its easier to play fast on the ones with lighter gauge strings (9-42). i also have a guitar strung with 11-52 or so, and it's way harder for me because the resistance is very high. i have to use more force to pick the string which after a while adds tension.

our songs contain lots of rhythm changes, which usually gives me some time to relax. there are a couple of real fast thrash songs which are fast all the time (kind of slayer-necrophobic, but a bit slower....i'd love to speed that one up, but i cant ^^ )


greets
fragle

[j2379]

Re: need help with fast rhythm playing

learn surf music, clean fast picking. then slayer once your clean with speed.

[Blazphemer]

Re: need help with fast rhythm playing

[ QUOTE ]
learn surf music, clean fast picking. then slayer once your clean with speed.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah learn some Dick Dale... lots of clean tremolo picking

[Newc]

Re: need help with fast rhythm playing

Get a thin pick, put a "Death Grip" on it, and flail the sh1t out of the strings [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]
Seriously, I used to use these thin-ass Dunlop picks - they were a light pink (to match the Salmon Pink Kramer I had at the time), and they were like .01MM thick or some crap - super thin.
Anyway, I also had an Iron Grip of Death, and I could pivot at the wrist at blistering speeds. I was playing fast rhythms for speed's sake, and then someone said it sounded like Metallica. "Me-WHO-ica!?" I said, and then later I heard Master of Puppets, and I said "Oh, ok, now I know who that guy was talking about" [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Anyhoo, another thing you can do - twist your arm around so that your elbow is straight out to your side, arm bent in towards the guitar. Rest the ball of your hand on the bridge, and pivot at the wrist as fast as you can. This is the only way I can do the end of the solo to "Problem Child" - the 22nd fret/neck pickup tremolo picking he's doing.

Newc

[markD]

Re: need help with fast rhythm playing

i use medium fender mandolin picks (358's), and i learned surf music...for real. in fact i played in a surf band with my brother for 2 years. it worked wonders for the picking speed because everything was double picked at double time speed. definatly practice clean first because once you get the strings to vibrate like a blur - clean with no effects, adding distortion makes it easier.

also try raising the action on the bass side of the neck. i have found that slightly higher action allows the string to vibrate more easily.

i found that relaxing my arm and letting the wrist do the work was easier than "muscling" the guitar like my brother. his whole forearm attacks the guitar, but it works for him.

[metallicarocks]

Re: need help with fast rhythm playing

.73 nylon Dunlop. Everything else feels weird.

Try galloping faster and faster. It help coordination and natural feel for your rhythm.

Many will say use the metronome method. It works, but sometimes I use the exact opposite. Play the riff incredibly fast as best as you can. It will sound like ass, but trust me on this one. Keep practicing it at a rediculous speed until you can at least play part of it. When you go back to the right speed, it will feel easier. Sounds strange, but it works.

[Fragle]

Re: need help with fast rhythm playing

metallicarocks, thats basically the same thing john petrucci recommends when it comes to leads. on his instructional dvd, he says that sometimes you should go past what you can play cleanly and just kill yourself; lower speeds will feel much easier then.

[metallicarocks]

Re: need help with fast rhythm playing

Really? Hell, we just did it in the symphonic band with the flutes. I thought their heads were gonna blow! It was an insane 16 beat run at about 170 bpm. I wish I coulda brought the guitar out, not a problem on that thing considering I do it at 200 bpm. I could never do that on the upright bass though...

[RacerX]

Re: need help with fast rhythm playing

ridiculous

[nor]

Re: need help with fast rhythm playing

http://www.metronomeonline.com

Start practicing...

[img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[darkknight]

Re: need help with fast rhythm playing

Holy wars...the punishment due. Seriously, while learning this song, my picking tempo and finger coordination and just general confidence skyrocketed pretty much overnight without me even noticing.