Theory question about powerchords

[Number Of The Priest]

Yeah, of all things, a theory question about POWERCHORDS! [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Okay. Let's say I'm playing a powerchord riff in the key of E minor. Imagine a jiggity jug Strongbad style rhythm pattern starting with the lowest E5 powerchord, then going up to F#. Strike the F# powerchord, but then the fifth is a C# which is clearly not in the key of E minor. I know the proper minimalistic chord you can do at the F# position is the F# root and the third above it, A, on the A string. So why is that C# allowed in some songs I hear, ie- when I'm playing along to some Iron Maiden and that sort of stuff in the key of E minor?

Same thing with the B powerchord tabbed:

E-----|
B-----|
G--4--|
D--4--|
A--2--|
E-----|

Why is this acceptable in the key of E minor when it should be a 2-0-0 chord (whatever that is called)?

I suck at theory so you guys may have to dumb it down for me a few notches... [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[ApeDosMil]

Re: Theory question about powerchords

not sure, but maybe it has something to do with the straight to E to F, and B to C that allows this?

[blindmuddy]

Re: Theory question about powerchords

The F# and C# is in E minor if your in E minor DORIAN as opposed to aeolian or phrygian. E dorian has the same notes as a regular d major scale but when played over e minor has a minor sound

[blindmuddy]

Re: Theory question about powerchords

That b chord does work though with e aeolian or dorian but not with phrygian. And use your ear too depending on the chord progression you can mix em up a bit as long as it sounds good the "off" notes when used right can add tension and make your solos more interesting.

[skidd]

Re: Theory question about powerchords

You could also just mix up the scales over the changes (as said above). You could also just add the c# note as kinda of a leading tone, you could as just a blues scale and float that in as well. I say try it all!

[Tekky]

Re: Theory question about powerchords

Remember, there's at least three versions of minor that can be used. When you throw passing tones into the mix, you can almost be atonal.

I had charts and everything made out until I realized, theoretically there isn't really an E minor scale. There's E-Flat, or there's F-Flat. (yes, I know that's technically E, but in the theoretical world, it's still F-flat)

All of it can be summed up perfectly in a quote from Billy Sheehan:
[ QUOTE ]
You must know the rules before you can break them.

[/ QUOTE ]

[Number Of The Priest]

Re: Theory question about powerchords

Damn... and here I thought the E minor scale was E, F#, G, A, B, C, D, E. And now C# is okay if I'm in E minor dorian... Ahhhh! I hate theory. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[skidd]

Re: Theory question about powerchords

Try to play though the changes not "with" the changes. Think of every chord as it own and look for crossing tones etc.

[blindmuddy]

Re: Theory question about powerchords

Think of it like this, In a G major sacle each of the separate notes would be the root for a different mode. The G would obviously be major. The same scale over the a chord would have a minor sound and that is dorian. Over the b chord the same scale will also have a minor sound, that's phrygian, kinda think Al Dimeola. Over the C chord you have the lydian mode, here think Steve Vai. Its more major sounding but kinda out there. Over D it's mixolydian which is dominant and you can use it for some real cool blues and country stuff and if you're in this mode it' sounds cool to throw in some chromatic stuff just try and resolve in key. Then E would be aeolian which is what you think of when you think minor. The 7th note is locrian and it's probably the one you'll use the least. The key to making stand out modally is to for example If playing over the e minor chord emphasize the notes in the e minor arpeggio, Over the g emphasize the g major arpeggio etc, over the d for mixolydian you'd emphasize a dom7 arp and it sounds real cool to hammer or slide from a minor 3rd to a major 3rd. It's a good place to start and It's not nearly as hard as it sounds but you do need to learn arpeggios. It also helps to learn the whole fretboard especially when using arps. Hope this helps
Chris

[Number Of The Priest]

Re: Theory question about powerchords

Dude... if someone told me this three years ago, I would be WAY ahead of where I am by now! Relating it to G major made it easy... thank you!! [img]/images/graemlins/notworthy.gif[/img] I'll have to mess around with the notes in G major in different modes and see what kinds of tonal flavors I can get. Since I know most of the fret positions of G major (since its relative minor is E minor which I seem to play in often), then it should be a great stepping stone to work from!

[blindmuddy]

Re: Theory question about powerchords

No Problem, I'd been playing for a long time before I got turned on to this stuff and it made a HUGE difference for me

[Number Of The Priest]

Re: Theory question about powerchords

And I'm hoping it will make a huge difference for me too. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

I still think I don't understand the C# being in the key of E minor though. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] And then Tekky goes and mentions this "fictitious" F-flat. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] Arrrgh! Damn theory. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[blindmuddy]

Re: Theory question about powerchords

Think about how the F# relates to the A chord in the above. Cause the A is the root of Dorian there. Now if you're talking about D major being the scale then E is the Dorian root there and there you have the C#.
The only difference between E aeolian (G major) and E Dorian (D major) is that the aeolian has the C, and E Dorian has the C#

[Number Of The Priest]

Re: Theory question about powerchords

Okay, let's say there's a song I'm playing where it requires me to play F#5 powerchords and C5 powerchords. Clearly I cannot play the fifth above F# which is a C# if I have a C5 powerchord in the same key, or can I? [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

*trying very hard to interpret and learn* [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[blindmuddy]

Re: Theory question about powerchords

If you want to keep it in the same relative major key you can try a C# major scale C# D# F F# G# A# C C#
(If you really want to get technical it SHOULD be spelled out as E# and F#, cause youre not supposed to use the same letter twice) There F# is the lydian mode and the C is locrian and it can start sounding VERY interseting. But it wont be your normal metal kinda sound but thats good.
Sometimes over that kinda riff you can flat the 5 in the c chord and mix it up playing minor over the F# and diminished arpeggiated stuff over the C.