Help w/ Sloppy technique

[Newc]

Re: Help w/ Sloppy technique

Rhoads said that slow and sloppy equals fast and sloppy.

Practice typing on a computer to improve accuracy (especially for two-handed tapping).

And I agree about higher action and bigger strings for practice before hitting the lower action and skinnier strings, but beware of the force it takes to fret higher action/thicker strings that it doesn't translate to strangling the "shred" guitar, which will slow you down as well.

But definitely perfect your stuff at slower tempos first.
I had one of those Ibanez slow-downer tape thingies and learned the solo to Stairway on it, but would try to play it at speed before I had all the notes down. Then I got to where I'd play it only at the slowest possible speed, but still with the same phrasing, which made it cleaner. Eventually I got to where I could play it at full speed and faster, note for note, just like Page.

Doing that solo slowly also increases your bending strength, because you're holding double bends for twice or three times as long [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[Evol]

Re: Help w/ Sloppy technique

Just to clarify,I didn't mean thicker gauge strings,use the same gauge/brand/guitar that you're used to ,just raise the action slightly,not like 2 inches or anything [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

You will notice instantly the pick response you get from your right hand,it feels,how should I say,well... bouncy [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

That way you're not going backwards by having to readjust to skinny strings again,etc. And you may end up getting used to the action and keeping it that way,which has tone benefits as well.

[~K~]

Re: Help w/ Sloppy technique

I saw someone speaking about the technique on running the fret board. thats a great one and sit there for a specified amount of time concentrating on picking every note up/down- start slow at the first fret and work your way up to 12 then back down varying patterns each repitition ala Steve Vais 10 hour work out ..




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[RR05xx]

Re: Help w/ Sloppy technique

One thing that helps to to take a step back and SLOW DOWN so you can focus on gets the sounds you want. The biggest mistake that I witness (and am guity of myself!) is that you try to pick up speed before the ability it there. Everyone does it. But if you can recognize the flaw and try to focus on sounding out each note, you will be taking a step forward as you practice. Then the speed will come naturally.

[charvelguy]

Re: Help w/ Sloppy technique

I agree, it is tempting and all to easy to try to go faster than able. If you play slower and strive for consistancy without mistake at an even tempo over an extended period I think you'll see better results than when you push yourself to soon so it is a gauge of what speed you wish to start at, probably 80-100 bpm.

What Kevin posted in tab is almost exactly what I use for part of my practice. Initially starting with this and doing this slow with even tempo will clean up your playing.

Just for personal preference I tend to accent the first note of each run. As soon as I mess up one note or it is inconsistant, I go back to beginning of the line of the pattern, or sometimes to the E string. I reverse the picking as well, starting with the first note as downstroke to alternate, then upstroke-alternating. You can mix up which note you put the accent upon or do muted runs too.

There's a bunch of other ways in which you can mix this up...as it can be on some days bordering tedium, but if you are patient and paying attention to playing clean without mistake the payoff is there. For me starting over when I make a mistake really teaches consistancy to not make one.
They pretty much use that philosophy in typing excercises as well. A faster sloppy typist @ 40wpm is not as valued as one who can do 30wpm without mistake over the same time frame. Consistancy of quality yields more precision.

I don't know who started this as seems to have been around way before Vai but most big name players instructional vids touch upon this one.

[~K~]

Re: Help w/ Sloppy technique

[ QUOTE ]
I reverse the picking as well, starting with the first note as downstroke to alternate, then upstroke-alternating

[/ QUOTE ]


heh ..as simple as that theory is I'd never thought of that ... thanks ..

The other thing to add is pay attention to the areas your weak in .. for instance if you are weak at your pinky going up then make sure to concentrate slowly on the area ..

[Number Of The Priest]

Re: Help w/ Sloppy technique

[ QUOTE ]
Oh and when you practice. Always use pretty high gain and reasonably loud vollume. That's when it's easiest to spot your own sloppiness. Never "practice" electric stuff unplugged

[/ QUOTE ]

I am sorry, but I have to disagree with you, at least on my own personal level. When forcing myself to learn a song, I will take one of my electric guitars to my bedroom where I have my computer, practicing unplugged and totally clean. I use a MIDI-based program called Guitar Pro to use its built-in metronome or a backing track in any tempo, and go slowly and cleanly until my fingers have "memorized" the passage I want to learn. I then increase the tempo by 5bpm until I can nail it, then repeat.

If it is a cover song I am learning, I usually open up Guitar Pro at the same time as Windows Media Player to see how the song is really being played. Windows Media Player has a built-in tempo slider so you can slow down the song and learn it note-for-note. So, I tend to flip back and forth between Guitar Pro and Windows Media Player.

High distortion and high volume is like make-up that covers your true form and covers up sloppiness. For example, I can squeeze out pinch harmonics with relative ease on an acoustic guitar or unplugged electric guitar, and when I plug in, it sounds natural and your true voice comes through. So, I typically play unplugged, forcing me to clean up and really LISTEN to what I am playing (since it's so quiet).

Then after I've learned what I wanted to learn, I plug in and hear my progress. Only when I am confident that I am not sloppy do I "apply make-up" in the form of distortion, delay, reverb, etc.

[jjw]

Re: Help w/ Sloppy technique

since we will be playing in front of an amp normaly cranked loud it helps to practice this way so muting is mastered
High gain overdrive doesnt cover playing mate?if loads of verb and delay are added then fair enough-but i find playing with a loudish overdriven amp makes me fret better
clean learning is cool too,but plug that preamp in as well

[charvelguy]

Re: Help w/ Sloppy technique

There is definitely differing philosophy behind this and it is about the same argument as practicing sitting down as opposed to standing up. I try to respect the fact that I'm going to play both clean or with gain, sitting down as well as standing up. I usually practice clean or cleaner, but when I 'play' for practice.. I also am aware of having to cut it with distortion and gain and be able to master that. You can pull off and not pick every note either way, clean or dirty. Whether that jumps out at you while listening for execution that it sounds like a noticable crutch when you'll play with gain tone on a phrase which you would likely pick every note on a clean setting at a slower speed..that is give-n-take.

I just try not to cheat myself when I listen objectively to what I'm doing either way. When I listened to Dimeola, he had what he wanted to achieve using either as he was usually not using a real legato pull off technique.

Les Paul used to put the amp right in front of him.
G. Lynch refrained using delay or reverb or effects as it threw his timing off while doing playbacks. So it was all outboard.
Would Chet Atkins sound like Chet through a cranked Marshall?...probably but he wouldn't be very comfortable as it is usually not attributed to his style or how he wants to convey his musical ideas.

[lockenload]

Re: Help w/ Sloppy technique

So what's a good metronome that's pretty loud so I can hear it over my Duoverb? So start slow and keep in time and gradually try it faster. In the meantime practise some scales and start slow and built up speed to. and just play for fun to keep you going?

[VanOsbourne]

Re: Help w/ Sloppy technique

[ QUOTE ]
learn shredding and you'll be forced to end the sloppiness.

Shredding needs to be ultra precise. But Blues and stuff haha I let go of precision when I play that.

[/ QUOTE ]

Crazy talk here. [img]/images/graemlins/idea2.gif[/img] Try playing some SRV rythms sloppy and see how far you can get.



[ QUOTE ]
Oh and when you practice. Always use pretty high gain and reasonably loud vollume. That's when it's easiest to spot your own sloppiness. Never "practice" electric stuff unplugged

[/ QUOTE ]

So if I practice unplugged and play really clean I'll be sloppy when I plug in an amp? [img]/images/graemlins/scratchhead.gif[/img]

I'm pretty sure some of the greatest in the world have practiced without an amp plenty.

[maddog]

Re: Help w/ Sloppy technique

Some digital metronomes have headphone jacks on them so you could use that to get more vomume by plugging it in to another amp or something.

Another thing about practicing with distortion is that you will learn to pick lightly. When I practice with the guitar unplugged I end up picking too hard because it is hard to hear the notes, then when plug in I am picking way too hard and totally bashing the strings. I use 9's though so it is very important not to pick too hard with them coz they start wobbling about. If you dont use 9's just ignore what I have said.

[jjw]

Re: Help w/ Sloppy technique

Van mate-i remember seeing some spanish classical guitarist playing on a nylon strung fat guitar many years ago,and he was amazing
Then he spoiled it by pluging a strat into a loud amp and playing!His muting skills sucked and you could hardly hear his bluesy lines as the other strings were rumbling away like a heavy goods train.
SRV liked to play and record loud with many amps,but he kept those unplayed strings tamed-Most of the time when i noodle around its infront of the box and unplugged-but i do make shure i play at loud volumes as its a tricky beast to tame when overdriven and loud

[shredmonster]

Re: Help w/ Sloppy technique

If I practice too long without plugging into an amp I lose some feel for harmonics, muting and so forth.

I practice more often than not without one but I think you have to play a couple of times a week with an amp.

[Soap]

Re: Help w/ Sloppy technique

[ QUOTE ]
since we will be playing in front of an amp normaly cranked loud it helps to practice this way so muting is mastered

[/ QUOTE ]
Agreed.
This (muting) in itself is instrumental very key to developing quality clean playing. A cleaner player has learned the importance of muting and eliminating unwanted string noise and etc. This is only noticed and learned from playing at comfortable louder volumes. It doesn't need to be ripping loud, but loud enough to hear the mistakes going on under your hands.

"Learning" a song at quiet volumes (unplugged) is all fine and dandy and is entirely a different thing, than playing loud enough to hear your mistakes to develop and advance your playing.