Building endurance

[Newc]

Re: Building endurance

"No Pain No Gain" is the absolute dumbest thing I've ever heard applied to guitar. Pain means stop or lose the use of whatever you're over-working. It may be fine for bodybuilding when you ADD the muscle-building protein foods, but since this is NOT bodybuilding and she is NOT approaching it like a bodybuilding routine by adding proteins, that analogy is useless.
And if she does add proteins, she'll end up with one arm as big as her leg.

As for the Reign In Blood topic - it would be better to study videos of them playing rather than just hearing them do it, as the technique they use (ie hand/arm position) plays a large factor in it. Get some live Slayer videos, as well as vids of anyone else who is known to play with all downstrokes.

[jjw]

Re: Building endurance

wise words-if you find it painfull look for other ways to play it-Down picking is also a very usefull tonal tool to use,and hard to get intense speed at

[Deneb]

Re: Building endurance

Newc, I can play fast, for long periods of time, with no problem. Maybe before you say it's the dumbest thing applied to guitar, you should look at the "Halford Warrior"poke:

Maybe my comment is off-base in wording, but not in practice.



I'll explain,

You're not trying to build up your body here. You're trying to build endurance, and strengthen whatever you're using. You're not going to get any better, by not challenging yourself. If you quit when you start getting heated, then you're not going to get anywhere. I'm not saying, damage your fingers and wrist. I'm saying, playing is NOT going to make your hand fall off, or make you lose any movement in the fingers as someone here [img]/images/graemlins/poke.gif[/img] may lead you to believe.

I don't have huge fingers, and they're not immobile. They do what I want, and I usually don't get tired. If my approach doesn't work for you, don't use it. Again when I say no pain no gain, I don't mean like rot your fingers off, I just mean, you've got to work at something you want, and you have to play past being tired. If you can't do that, and you always stop the moment you get tired, you won't get anywhere.



Watching videos, just shows you their technique which may be a good guide, however what works for one player, may not work for another. I was at a guitar clinic Kerry King was at (imagine that) and his guitar was so low, I could barely play it.

[Shawn Lutz]

Re: Building endurance

I agree you have to push yourself to the point of pain and perhaps a little past that but c'mon, no one is stupid enough to severly damage themselves playing guitar.

I think she has the ideas she needs to try out to help her picking hand during rhythm playing and playing in general. One of the key points several of you made is to not tense up and relax even when you are blazing away, its control that you'll eventually learn but you have to work on that.

No need for everyone to think their way is the only way to reach a goal. There are multiple paths to the same goal. Just because I suggest some things that have worked for me in my playing doesn't mean it would work for everyone.

[RR05xx]

Re: Building endurance

LOL! Reading this is intersting as I do not think that "Master of Puppets" sounds right if you alternate pic it, so that is one particular song that I always downstroke thru for most part. Now Battery on the otherhand......

[KevinDguitar]

Re: Building endurance

I'd like to add to some of the excellent advice given here. You can also try practicing in burst or "revving". You have to make sure that you're staying relaxed and ditto for the stopping when you feel pain advice. But you can also build endurance and speed by taking a particular passage and "looping" it, but start out slow and say after 10 repeats..suddenly gas it as fast as you can in a burst and then drop back to the slower speed..doing this several times in a row can build stamina and speed. another technique can be to take an alternate picking pattern for your right hand and set the metronome to something slow..maybe around 88bpms..then start playing the passage as quater notes..make sure you're burying the click..play right on top of it..in good timing..then without changing the tempo..change the division or the beat, so instead of increasing the pulse of the beat, you're increasing the number of notes per beat..I've actually had students who have great speed, but no control..they actually have a harder time with the super slow playing..its lack of control and a timing issue..the anticpation of the next beat falling. Hope this helps...hope this makes sense. LOL!

[Newc]

Re: Building endurance

Actually, several people have proven themselves to be stupid enough to severely damage themselves playing guitar - remember Mark St. John? Carpal Tunnel ended his career pretty quick.
"Playing through the pain" can end it all for you. It's one thing to SAY it, another thing to have the evidence that it works, and a totally different thing to say WHEN you should stop. How far into the pain does one go? 5, 10, 20 minutes? Is 5 minutes enough to cripple you for life?
I disagree that you won't improve if you don't push past a physical pain limit when speaking of guitar.
The risk of permanent damage is entirely too great.

[nor]

Re: Building endurance

How's your breathing?
If your not getting enough oxygen it will tire you very quickly.

[GodOfRhythm]

Re: Building endurance

I personally think the best way of building endurance is having fun while playing, even when doing exercices, and approaching it with a smile. Because that's what guitar's for!

Combine that with a proper stance (standing up, with the guitar at a comfortable height, or sitting down in classical position) and a lot of repetition (not of notes played, but of the playing itself) and you've got yourself a formula for success!

You'll play a lot, build endurance, but most importantly HAVE FUN!

P.S.: If you start having pain or your fingers start to cramp, put the guitar away and go do something else. Then, after a couple of hours or the next day start playing again, and it'll already go a lot smoother.

And I would also like to point out a proper warm-up technique, try stretching your fingers a little before taking the actual guitar, then just go over some chord progressions without actually stroking the guitar, then start playing some soft and mellow things and gradually build up, after 15 minutes or so you can then go into the faster and harder stuff.

[Shawn Lutz]

Re: Building endurance

[ QUOTE ]
Actually, several people have proven themselves to be stupid enough to severely damage themselves playing guitar - remember Mark St. John? Carpal Tunnel ended his career pretty quick.
"Playing through the pain" can end it all for you. It's one thing to SAY it, another thing to have the evidence that it works, and a totally different thing to say WHEN you should stop. How far into the pain does one go? 5, 10, 20 minutes? Is 5 minutes enough to cripple you for life?
I disagree that you won't improve if you don't push past a physical pain limit when speaking of guitar.
The risk of permanent damage is entirely too great.

[/ QUOTE ]

My point was you have to push yourself to the limit, not playing for 30 minutes past the pain threshhold, that is stupid. No pain no gain does not apply. If you push yourself slightly past your limit and then stop. That limit point slowly increases with time and you will progress.

[guitarsjb]

Re: Building endurance

First off I want to that all of you guys for your help, ideas etc.
Although I haven't had time to use EVERY idea given, these are a few I have hit, and they have helped.
1. I lenghtened (sp?) my guitar strap just a bit, and it has seemed to allow my picking hand to "stretch" a bit more. (thanks newc)
2. I have made EXTRA effort to warm up better, have streched my hands,fingers and arms before playing, even run my hands under a bit of warm water. (thanks Ace)
3. Changed the order of our set list, tried to mix it up with faster/slower songs. (again, Newc)
4. Try to be more relaxed. Not easy..but trying (thanks Inearthed)
5. Working with my metronome. Alot of alternate picking exercises, working on playing cleanly and in time. If I mess up, I back the metronome up a few beats and start over. (thanks ShawnLutz)
6. I'm trying to add more days, and increase my practice time, but I can't say I've really done that yet.. (thanks jgcable)
7. I've played something that makes me tired, then tried to play it once more, hope to expand on it..(thanks Deneb)
8. I've picked out a couple of "harder" songs..Slayer and Metallica, and am going to try to learn them. (thanks RR05xx)
Mostly...(thanks GodofRhythm) I have HAD FUN!! I remember WHY I wanted to learn to play...it's cool!!
Again, you guys rock, I still have plenty of suggestions to try, and I will. Thanks!! [img]/images/graemlins/headbang.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/notworthy.gif[/img]
Oh yeah, and in a couple of our songs..I listened to what needed the "chunk" of downpicking, and what really didn't so I switched up some of that with alternate picking/strumming which also gives my arm/hand a break.

[Newc]

Re: Building endurance

Good for you! [img]/images/graemlins/toast.gif[/img]

I also had another idea that would be kinda hard to pull off but would kick total ass, especially if no one figured out you were doing it:
If you've got a second guitarist, both of you play the same rhythm pattern, but you both play it in half-time, with one doing it on the opposite beat.

For example:

GTR-1: (Slashes indicate a Rest)
E||--------------------------||
B||--------------------------||
G||----/--/--/--/--/--/--/--/||
D||--5--5--5--5--5--5--5--5--||
A||--5--5--5--5--5--5--5--5--||
E||--3--3--3--3--3--3--3--3--||

GTR-2:
E||--------------------------||
B||--------------------------||
G||--/--/--/--/--/--/--/--/--||
D||---5--5--5--5--5--5--5--5-||
A||---5--5--5--5--5--5--5--5-||
E||---3--3--3--3--3--3--3--3-||

Here's the MIDI mp3s of each one:
Single passage: http://autumn-frost.com/mp3/rhythm-trick1.mp3
Both together: http://autumn-frost.com/mp3/rhythm-trick2.mp3
Split L/R: http://autumn-frost.com/mp3/rhythm-trick3.mp3

Like I said, it'd be hard to pull off - you'd have to have the tightest rhythm section ever - but imagine sounding like you're doing 256+ BPMs with all downstrokes [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[shredmonster]

Re: Building endurance

[ QUOTE ]
True Ace but when you are using scales and alternate picking you are working out your picking hand. When I started playing I was blessed with some cool left hand speed and took advantage of it for a long while. I then wanted to do Di Meola stuff and could hit the notes but no way picking every one of them [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] I built my picking hand up with scales and a mentonome.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed.

[skidd]

Re: Building endurance

Get a good metronome. A foot rest (like a classical player would use). Set up your video camera so it can see both of your hands clearly. Do finger exercises at different tempos. Make a note book with all the info (IE: what tempo, hoe long etc.). Every week up the tempo on the metronome by 2 (IE: 108 to 110 etc.). Go back to video tape once or twice a week. You will see a huge improvement in about 2-3 weeks.