timing issue

[Fragle]

hi all

oh how i hate it [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]
well...basically, i can't really deal with this typical "trash" drum pattern...you know, like this
1 + 2 + 3 + 4 +
b s b s b s b s
b meaning bassdrum and s meaning snare


lets say you got a riff like this
<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre>

---------------------------------
---------------------------------
---------------------------------
---------------------------------
-7---7---5---7---8---7p0-8-7-5-7-
---0---0---0---0---0------------- </pre><hr />

my problem is that i usually start of at the right position (meaning the 7 is on the bassdrum), but i ALWAYS get thrown out of the beat and put the 7 on the snare beat. which sounds horrible with two guitars playing, to say the least.

the thing is that i can barely hear the kick, whereas the snare cuts through even the muddiest live mix, so i seem to concentrate on the snare giving the beat, which leads to the aforementioned problem.. [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

does any of you guys have some general advise how to fix this?

by the way, i used to have a similar problem with a riff similar to this

<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre>
-------------------
-------------------
-------------------
---2---2---2-3p2---
-0---0---0-------3-
-------------------
</pre><hr />
the drum beat to this is a reversed version of the one mentioned above...snare, bass, snare bass....i used to put the 2 on the snare, which is exactly wrong. now that i fixed that one, i suddenly can't play the one i posted first which used to give me no problems whatsoever...it's like a curse.
this is why i need to figure out a way to fix the whole problem...because sitting down for days or even weeks with a drum machine and one particular riff trying to get it down isn't a convenient solution....

any ideas?

[Newc]

Re: timing issue

Well, if you know where the snare is, you know where the bass drum is. If you can hear the song in your head, you know where everything is, and where you should be.

I take it in the above example the 7 is on the bass drum and the 0 is on the snare? Practice it without the snare hits (use a MIDI program to do the drums and leave out the snare, practice the guitar parts without the 0) - like a bass line - then bring in the snare and corresponding guitar notes once you've got it nailed.

[Fragle]

Re: timing issue

maybe i should mention that the lick i posted above is played around 210-220bpm....so of course, theoretically i know where the bass drum is and where the notes should be, but because it's so fast i tend to mix it up.

i got it down at around 190bpm, and faster and i start playing sloppy. i bet i can manage to play the lick at the right speed.....but as i said above, this is an issue with every riff thats played over such a drum beat, so i'd like to get some advice how to permanently fix this

anyways, i'll try your idea, and post the results later

[Newc]

Re: timing issue

Practice makes perfect. It's cliche`, but it's true.

Once you've got the bass/guitar part nailed at full speed, practice the other half of the riff only on the snare hits, then once you've got that perfect at full speed, do them both together at full speed. It's an inverse pattern, as you said, so you have to make yourself think of it and follow it in the inverse, even if you have to do a mental ghost note.

One thing that can really improve your timing is a tremolo effect. Set it to any given rate and pick on the quiet parts (pretend it's the snare) so all you hear is the note, not the picking, one note per cycle. The faster the rate, the harder it is to get the pick in before the sweep comes up, but if you can nail it, you can nail anything with a fast rhythm.

Of course you can't set it to do complex rhythms, but last I saw you can't do that with a metronome either.