How do you guys write songs?

[ApeDosMil]

I'm having a hard as hell time of writing stuff. I can get one part down, but linking it to another always seems to be a problem. Its also a problem because of singing. I really suck at melodys and guitar melodys.

Its just guitar, bass, and drums. and a second guitar for fills.

[markD]

Re: How do you guys write songs?

when i write an instrumental, i come up with a basic progression first. most of my instrumentals are like new age compsitions, so i plan my chord progressions on an acoustic guitar. then i determine the key of the progression. then to make a change i figure out what mood i want the song to have (most of them are slower melancholy pieces). once i've done that, i start playing with different changes until one sounds right. from there i figure out if i want a key change. that's where it gets hard, because then i have to think of linking chords or a linking run. once that is accomplished, i plan how long each part is going to be. after it's planned, i record a basic acoustic guitar track of the song. from there i add all the melody lines and various instruments that will paint the picture i want.

here's an example song. this whole thing sprang from an idea i had from screwing around with a 2 chord change.

http://onlinerock.com/musicians/eigh...melancholy.wma

everything else came from playing over the changes.

[atomic charvel guy]

Re: How do you guys write songs?

songs pour out of me. i can write riffs and connect them, and i can write lyrics and poems at the drop of a hat, but putting them together is something i've never been good at, always needed a partner, so i can't help you. sorry for the babbling.

[Badseed]

Re: How do you guys write songs?

i can honestly say that riffs do just pour out of tommy, usually at four in the morning while calling me,lol.Drummers are always the guys i worked best with.They could help me connect the dots so to speak.Keep at it though, it just takes time and the willingness to let yourself succeed at it.Dont fight yourself thinking a part sounds too familiar or too simple.Simple is best to sing over anyways, or solo over.

My .2 cents

Bad seed Gomes

[CodeOfHonour]

Re: How do you guys write songs?

I am just jamming around, listening to some cds until the first ideas for riffs come up. I try to arrange everything in my mind, then kickoff the iMac and Garageband, do a pilot-guitar, programm drums and then layering the guitars.

Works out perfect for me, as I have full control over the arrangements and can hand out a nearly complete recording of the song to my bandmates.

[shredmonster]

Re: How do you guys write songs?

Honestly, most guys I meet that play guitar don't know that much about scales, theory, etc...

I can come up with all kinds of stuff - why? Because I know the 7 basic chords in every major scale and those in the harmonic minor scale and all of the 7ths, etc...

I see guys putting songs together that are not diatonic and they can't figure out why they cannot come up with other parts of the song when from the beginning they don't have any idea of what they are doing.

I am not trying to be critical in your case because I don't know you or what your skills are. Put it this way - if a carpenter does not have the tools or skills how can he build house?

Learn theory.

[atomic charvel guy]

Re: How do you guys write songs?

i don't know a drop of theory, it just comes to me. i mean i know a little, and i mean a little bit of theory but the rest is just winged. i recommend learning theory , but then you look at a guy like george lynch or hendrix. they didn't know theory and they could write great tunes. i don't know,you're probably better off listening to shredmonster and not me that's for sure-lol

[Fragle]

Re: How do you guys write songs?

well, actually, if you don't know a lot of theory, don't learn it. it's good to have a basic idea so you CAN analyze what you're writing, but if you know a lot about theory (like i do) chances are that you will get stuck. my experience is that i'm often trying to write stuff based on the scales and modes that are used in other parts of the songs, instead of just going for whatever SOUNDS good. thats the key imho. go for whatever sounds good to you. hendrix, evh, and chuck schuldiner (RIP) didn't know jack about theory, and listen to the amazing songs they wrote (in eddies case used to write)

if i had the chance to forget half of my theory knowledge, i'd not even think about it for half a second. but maybe i'm just fukked [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

"if a carpenter does not have the tools or skills how can he build house? "
he'll always have one tool: his ears.

[shredmonster]

Re: How do you guys write songs?

I knew a lot of people would disagree here and thats fine.

But you're saying that you don't need to know anything about music to be a great musician. Don't need to know anything about playing guitar to be a great guitarist - that is the logic carried out in your argument here.

You're telling me George Lynch does not know theory? You think he solos in the harmonic minor scale by pure accident?

Oh and Hendrix didn't know anything about the blues right? He just played all that by accident too.

The principle is to learn all you can about theory and then put it aside or "forget about it" when writing.

I can sit down and come up with a tune in about 5 minutes - I did last night - I do it all the time. Good ones not crap. My point is you don't base it strictly on theory but if you don't know theory you will never be the musician you can be. It opens up opportunities and ideas - not boxes you in. You learn how to put sounds together like puzzles.

If you do understand theory then you know what you are doing when you go "out of the box" or out of the key and come back in key mixing chromatic stuff, maybe switching to major blues then coming back to the main riffs.

Its always the guys that don't know any that seem to argue that it is not important. An I'm not saying that there have not been great songs written by ear - there have been a lot of them. But not consistently.

My opinion is you can do a lot more when you know what you are doing as opposed to guessing. I have seen the difference. I have been there - not knowing how to get around the fretboard and just using my ears. Fine if that is what you prefer. But this has been my experience.

But you will have a different attitude if you ever decide to understand theory.

Listen to music of the 80's (metal stuff). Brilliantly written and melodic. Many of those guys went to Berkley. Listen to the stuff now adays. Non melodic, atonal, etc... Yeah there are some good songs - but my point is that musicians don't learn their craft anymore. And the music reflects it.

And the labels just eat it up. Because once you get good you command more money and they don't want that. They want to make all of the money off of your 1st 3 CD's and then they boot you.

So don't learn theory. What do I care. Its just my opinion. But I don't have to guess my way around the fretboard. Someone has a tune and I can come up with a part that will fit right away.

If you decide to I guarantee you will never regret the time and work you put in to learn it and it will show in your song writing ability.

Its not theory that hampers ability or boxes you in - its lack of imagination.

[atomic charvel guy]

Re: How do you guys write songs?

at what point do you see me telling people not to learn theory? and lynch and hendrix did not know a lot of theory. i don't know a lot of theory, yes i know enough to get by,as did lynch and hendrix. you misunderstand me i think.

[Jack Napalm]

Re: How do you guys write songs?

George Lynch has said many times he doesn't know theory. He knows more now but there is a part in one of his videos where he says he doesn't know theory.

[atomic charvel guy]

Re: How do you guys write songs?

i never disagreed with you, in fact i told them to listen to you instead of me. it's all there in print shred.

[charvelguy]

Re: How do you guys write songs?

It is a process. Theory has so many positives in allowing you to discern and cipher through in so many time saving ways..you can't write a book that can be read or expressed to others if ya don't know the language. You have to kind of cut n paste sometimes. I find if I 'hear' an idea... I have to figure it out, lay it down and then I can rest on the idea. Othertimes.. it just is like a flow of a faucet and I can't turn it off...it'll be insistant and pop up off and on going on for days. The ideas need resolution.

Sometimes it takes a note sequence change, or a key change, or a timing change..I agree tho.. if you have a solid foundation in theory and have disected your inflences, learning from them..you should have a better idea of how to write & play concepts.

Many many times..I'll lay down a concept and find I created another idea in another key or tempo.. with a little tweaking.. it fits really well with the other snipets and melody.

[thetroy]

Re: How do you guys write songs?

Well I consider knowing the 7 major modes and harmonic minor scale to be "not much theory" so I guess I can believe Lynch would say that. Just have to say one thing though:

Berklee != Berkeley [img]/images/graemlins/poke.gif[/img]

[charvelguy]

Re: How do you guys write songs?

I don't know, I know some guys who were rather hack before they went into Berkeley or Berklee,(however you want to spell it) and they came out as rather educated polished hacks. They still play like they're sawing a log rather than stroking a harp (ie, it's a matter of feel and touch as well). All a matter of taste and opinion I guess..at least they have a piece of paper that says I can teach ya theory.

I also know guitarists who are accomplished players who can figure the sharps and flats of any scale in a matter of seconds, but they still have a challenging time creating and writing their own material.