How do you guys write songs?

[Shawn Lutz]

Re: How do you guys write songs?

Just because you know music theory doesn't mean you can write a good song. Look at the classical musicians, they rarely write anything original, they are playing stuff that written hundreds of years ago [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] but they sure as hell know theory.

The same can be said about a lot of guitarists IMHO. I consider myself fairly well versed in theory, not great but not sucky either but I don't have strong songwriting or compositional skill. My arrangement abilities lack and I usually require a writing partner. I can come up with all the ingredients or parts, its putting them together and knowing when to say enough is enough for this song that I have a problem with.

Knowing theory never hurts unless you become overly analytical. You have to learn to just accept things for what that are.... that hey, if it sounds good it must be good sometimes.

There are people who know little theory who can write a great song and there are people that know everything yet they can't write a good song to save their lives.

[guitarsjb]

Re: How do you guys write songs?

This is really a great thread, disagreements and all. I was just telling my husband that when I could find time I want to take some guitar lessons again, because I know basically NOTHING about theory and I feel like I am missing out on something. The other guitarist in our band knows some theory, not sure how much, because I don't understand much of it. But there are times he will say, let me try a harmonic minor somethingorother over this progression, and I am clueless....I play rythym, he handles the leads...he is pushing me to pick up some lead stuff, and I don't feel that I can, because of my lack of knowledge. Sure, I can play some great sounding stuff, but I know I could be alot better and more comfortable if I knew some theory.
Anyway great thread, thanks for your opinions.

[j2379]

Re: How do you guys write songs?

i used to just jam me & the drummer. i find it much easier to come with stuff that way, & its not the same with a drum machine or something its gotta be a drummer.

[Chuckracer]

Re: How do you guys write songs?

When I play the guitar, it is for my own enjoyment, and I just play. I'm not practicing scales or modes or crosspicking or any of that. I can do that stuff good enough for me to get my point across. I play whatever comes into my head at any given moment. Freedom-of-consciousness type stuff. I'm just...playin...flowin.
Sooner or later I'll start to hear familiar stuff that I've played before.
My whole ticket to rock is this: if I can remember the riff/lick/chord progression and think about it later when I'm not near a guitar, and like it, it's a winner. I'll add it to my bag and keep going.
Then I hand this bag to my partner Mark and he sorts thru it, gets inspired, and bolts stuff together and sends it back to me!

So...I guess I have no idea! I'll ask Mark for ya!

[ApeDosMil]

Re: How do you guys write songs?

Hmmm, I abonded this thread and came back. All I have to say is that when I try to play freely I end up doing a lot of depressing sounding stuff thats Spanishy/Classical and Chromatic at the same time. It prolly sounds like stabbed poo to you guys. If I have balls I will record it someday [img]/images/graemlins/sick.gif[/img]

[PallarAndersVisa]

Re: How do you guys write songs?

knowledge only opens doors. there is no such thing as bad knowledge

[horns666]

Re: How do you guys write songs?

I just play as many cool riffs as I can , and string together the ones that sound good to me..

wow ..how insightful was THAT!!! [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[Ace]

Re: How do you guys write songs?

I smoke a fat bowl and warm up by playing some of my band's exsiting songs, then I just go off on tangents and see where the guitar takes me...

[rapeandruin]

Re: How do you guys write songs?

All I have to say it I mess around until I find something I truly "love." Usually accompanied with it are about 2-3 other riffs. Set those up and come back the next day to see if I can create anything else that fits. Usually just keep playign the song and improvise until I find something that is good. For harmonized parts and what not I look up the scale and find a fit.

My advice is mess around until you find something you like. Then go from there...TAB EVERYTHING OUT! Get powertab because its free and it will help you remember the timing of a riff you wrote 6 months ago and finally found something it connects with.

[SixStringSuicide]

Re: How do you guys write songs?

"Steve Vai who is known for his huge knowledge of theory etc. never uses it when he writes songs. He uses a lot of weird harmony lines etc. that aren't written in any theory book."

Harmony "x" eh Endrik...the hidden harmony, not recorded in the books yet.... [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[StarRider]

Re: How do you guys write songs?

I'm just gonna add my 2 cents. When I first started playing many years ago, me and friends where writing and playing copies about the same time, very simple chord changes. We took guitar lessons in HS so we had a basic chord training. The rest was mostly influenced by what we listened too and emulated to be. The songs where very simple at this time, but they did just seem to come from nowhere. As I got older I took lessons and did learn more scales, and modes and some theory. I was stuck in pentatonic mode. After this and many years of writing, and performing, I can say songs still seem to just pop out of me, but with all the theory, and scales and modes I've learnt, the song structue is more complex. I don't ever site down and practice theory. This like speaking a langauge. You don't practice, you just use it every day, just like when I'm writing, I just use the knowledge of theory, and scales, and modes that I have learned over the years, I dont ever think about them, but certianly use them.

geeesh I've said more about this then I ever think about when I'm writing
[img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

[Dreamland_Rebel]

Re: How do you guys write songs?

this is my suggestion for those that want to write SONGS:

put on a cd you like and learn the songs on it. learn all the different parts the each guy is playing and pay attention to how the song is structured. (i.e. ABABCDB or verse, chorus, verse, chorus, solo, key change, chorus) stuff like that.

then apply those ideas to your own riffs. record them and then play to them adding on and expanding on what you have; till you find something you like, and an order that works. and with every song, or group of ideas, change up the formula a little bit. and before you know it you'll have an albums worth of material.

record it! it's easier to find musicians that want to play with you when you already have material because they can decide right then and there if it is something that they would be interested in working with. and you won't have to go through the whole jamming with someone to try and see if you like what each other do.

and before you ever hit the stage... have a cd to sell or give away! the rest will happen if you make it happen. record your shit. put it out yourself, and maybe, just maybe, if you keep doing that long enough, someone might take notice.

~jw

[Endrik]

Re: How do you guys write songs?

[ QUOTE ]
"Steve Vai who is known for his huge knowledge of theory etc. never uses it when he writes songs. He uses a lot of weird harmony lines etc. that aren't written in any theory book."

Harmony "x" eh Endrik...the hidden harmony, not recorded in the books yet.... [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know about the hidden harmony X, but I do know that books don't usually say that you can use the notes that are totally off the key etc. wich kinda was my point. And if you listen to some Vai's harmonys then there are some very dissonant and cool sounding "weird" melodys. But then again I don't really read books, maybe some books encourage to break the rules...."ABC for young Avant-Garde player" [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[ApeDosMil]

Re: How do you guys write songs?

Thanks for the tips. The problem I face is that I really get into one band and want to play like them. Right now I'm really into Lamb Of God, Their guitar work is amazing. Its very Arabic/Dissonent but sounds so awesome. I'm fearing that I will end up just copying them which I don't want to do. I'm learning how they play stuff and am trying to apply it to my way and it seems good.

All I want to do is write in the scales they use, its amazing how they play to me. I love it a lot.

[Inearthed]

Re: How do you guys write songs?

[ QUOTE ]
I smoke a fat bowl and warm up by playing some of my band's exsiting songs, then I just go off on tangents and see where the guitar takes me...

[/ QUOTE ]

I do the same thing, but I don't smoke a fat bowl.

Usually I just start playing some of my band's songs or just start playing along with whatever songs I have in my head, go off for a bit and eventually something else starts happening.