Need clarification about modes...

[mazhar]

hi everyone...ok i picked up a book and finally tried learning modes and howto use them. from what i understood, if i start playing the A Major scale from the 2nd note, B and follow the same major pattern then i would be playing the Locrian mode....i thought this was right until i met up with my other guitarist who's also learning modes these days and said that i was totally off?? was what i understood on the right track?? please explain if it wasnt....thanks alot!

[noodlesatf]

Re: Need clarification about modes...

You're right about the concept, wrong about the names. The first mode, or major scale, is Ionian. If you start on the second note, it is Dorian. From there, you have Phrygian, Lydian, Mixolydian, Aeolian, and Locrian.

I think what your other guitarist was trying to get at is you don't want to primarily use the Ionian scale box if you're playing Dorian, because you'll phrase everything wrong. You want the scale form you're using to match the mode you're playing in.

[thetroy]

Re: Need clarification about modes...

Noodles is right, here's my additional 2 cents on learning modes. I found the modes easier to learn after I had learned the 7 different patterns to play major scales with 3-notes-per-string. That way each pattern corresponds to a different mode.

[mpigott]

Re: Need clarification about modes...

Once you learn them you should start using them as soon as possible too!!!!!! Dont let yourself forget them!! Play the modes as a technique excersise so that they get burned into your mind. Also, i would suggest not only learning the patterns, but learning the formulas, and how they all relate to the major scale. It will really help your understanding. Use them to create chord progressions aswell. Summed up all i can say is dont just learn the patterns one day.....practice them untill you want to kill yourself [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] (But have fun too) And good luck!

[mazhar]

Re: Need clarification about modes...

thanks for the replies everyone...but there's still one thing i dont understand...my book says that locrian is B and dorian is D and mixolydian G and so on...so if i start playing the A major from the B note, why is it called "dorian" ?????

[taxistationary]

Re: Need clarification about modes...

First off, the book is describing those modes all and only in the key of C. The modes are all interchangeable through out the spectrem of all the keys. So lets say you want to play in your example, A major. B would then be Dorian, and so on. Or playing in the key of G major, A is now Dorian. See what I'm saying? They're names change throughout all of the keys.

[mazhar]

Re: Need clarification about modes...

ohhhh ok so dorian is like the standard name for all the "second root notes"...ahhh i seeee

[kmanick]

Re: Need clarification about modes...

"Modes Mystery No More" by Frank Gambale. the best DVD (video) out there covering Modes. He shows you formulas for each mode, shows demo jams so you can hear them etc.
by far the best I've seen covering modes , in my opinion a "Must Have"

[shredmonster]

Re: Need clarification about modes...

I think of a mode as a just a position on what ever scale you are playing.

It signifies that you are using and stressing a different note other than the tonic note as the root note in the position you are playing on the scale.

So if in Gmaj (same as Em scale) and you are playing using the A as the root note - stressing the A note, playing from one A octave to another A octave - you are playing in the Dorian mode or position. Even though they are the exact same notes as Gmaj you are stressing the A as the root.

Why would you be stressing the A note? Because the chord you are using in the Gmaj scale has the A note (as well as other notes of that Gmaj scale) as its root.

Since most Dorian chords of any major scale happen to be minor the Dorian position is usually a minor position and a minor sounding mode.

[jjw]

Re: Need clarification about modes...

Wise words Kmanick-Frank also has a few books out there that have more in depth information relating to how he personly plays over static chords or progressions.That Mode DVD rocks

[kmanick]

Re: Need clarification about modes...

I have his Technique book "I" and his "Improvisation made easy " books as well.
good stuff, Frank explains things very clearly and the technique books have tons of usable examples.
Lately I've really been into Greg Howe,ritchie Kotzen (the "Tilt" cd kicks ass!) and Michael Lee Firkins,
and Gambales books have helped me out a lot with figuring some of this crazy shit out [img]/images/graemlins/what.gif[/img]
Howe particularly has some complicated chording going on behind his solos (which are crazy enough in their own right)

[jazzman]

Re: Need clarification about modes...

If you are learning the modes, you should also learn the chords in Major keys. Each mode will fit with each chord. The first mode fits with the first chord and so on. Once you learn those, you'll see that depending on what chord you play in a particular major key, all of the modes will sound like the one that fits with that chord. It's hard to put into words. Once you learn all 7 modes, learn the chords in that key. After that, play each mode over every chord that key. You'll see what I mean. There is a lot of experimenting involved in learning the modes. I teach guitar and I see too many people learn the patterns and that's it. Learning the patterns is like buying a set of paints. Now that I have paint, maybe I should learn how to paint. I wish I could be more help, but it's hard to do with only words.

[shredmonster]

Re: Need clarification about modes...

Also note that once you learn the chords and modes the next step is to identify which notes the mode or scale pattern do not fit with the particular chord you are playing.

So that part of it can be complicated. Not all the notes in the mode necessarily fit every chord depending on the chord.
If you run into a note that does not sound right use it as a passing note and quickly move on.

Also, there are other possible scales that will fit the given chord you are playing. So say you are playing an Am chord but you are in the key of Gmaj (or whatever key) - you may try also using an Am scale, A minor pentatonic, A major Blues, A harmonic minor etc... for some added color - some will fit and some will not depending on the key you are in and the chord you are playing. This takes development and time and at first seems rediculously complicated. And it is complicated to a certain extent. But once you get into it you will get a feel for it over time.

I may ascend in a minor scale, descend in a harmonic minor, ascend again in a major scale and descend in major blues and throw some chromatic stuff in there on top of it - all in 4 or 8 bars. This is what gives you originality, texture, color, charactor - whatever you want to call it.

But the key is like jazzman said - learn your basic chords in the major scale - there are 7 of them - one on each root note and learn the corresponding scale position or "mode" on the root note of that chord.

Next figure out how to play the modes across the fretboard and not just in a box position. Then progress to learn other scales and experiment throwing other scales over your chords.

It can be a lot of work but this is what guys like Vai do and that is how they develop creativity and style and sound like they do.

[kmanick]

Re: Need clarification about modes...

Great advise given by Jazzman and ShredMonster, one more thing I will add is when learning the scale pattern for each chord try to learn the arpeggios that go with it as well. this can add a lot to you playing options. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
FOR Example (and this I think are what they are saying)
start at CMaj7 go to Dmin7, then Emin7,Fmaj7 etc. play the corresponding scales and arpeggios in each diatonic position and you'll see alot of new possibilities when soloing .
Learn Major first then give melodic minor a try!

[mazhar]

Re: Need clarification about modes...

wow. thanks alot...i checked this post after a week and its going to take me another week to go thru all this info...thanks alot everyone!!