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Is great technique wasted on non-musicians?

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  • Is great technique wasted on non-musicians?

    As the lead guitarist and primary songwriter in my band, I've hit a wall. I'm not an incredibly fast or technical player, certainly not a "shredder" by most standards, but once I have a song idea in mind, my playing is sufficient to make the song sound right. I play what the song requires, knowing that someone else could play it faster or adding more impressive techniques if they tried. However, the wall I'm talking about has nothing to do with comparing my skill to that of other players. It has everything to do with what constitutes a good listening experience.

    It seems that as "everything has been done in metal" is proven time and time again, bands turn up the speed and complexity, trying to amaze audiences with technical proficiency. Personally, I find myself thinking that all regard for songwriting has been abandoned by such bands. I appreciate a good solo and some fast riffing, but an Olympic event it is not. Many of my favorite albums came out of the Gothenburg "wave", and despite containing some amazing guitar work, it was the overall arrangements and song structures that made them memorable. I can't think of many albums that raised the bar much farther than Rust in Peace in terms of blending good writing with killer musicianship. Death accomplished it with Individual Thought Patterns, and Carcass did the same with Heartwork, but most of the more recent "extreme" releases seem to push the technical envelope at the expense of memorable songs.

    Is there a point at which the technical aspects of music go ignored by most listeners, with the exception of other musicians? I've had people come up to me after playing a set, telling me "you make it look so easy" or remarking on the speed of a particular song. The thing is, they aren't songs that I consider especially complicated, and my playing definitely is not up to the level of Chuck Schuldiner, Mike Amott, Dave Mustaine or whoever may have influenced me. I know that even if I strain to play a few beats per minute faster or nail some elusive solo, it won't have any bearing on the typical listeners perception of what is or isn't good.

    When you listen to music purely for enjoyment, do you want something to blow your mind with impressive technique, or do you appreciate a song as the sum of its parts?
    sigpic

  • #2
    Re: Is great technique wasted on non-musicians?

    Some non-musicians are still fans of good guitar playing and can appreciate great technique, but for the most part, nobody notices your sweeps.

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    • #3
      Re: Is great technique wasted on non-musicians?

      I hope not. My sweeping is abysmal! [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]
      sigpic

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      • #4
        Re: Is great technique wasted on non-musicians?

        Compliments from fellow guitarists are always a great thing, but to me, doing something that impresses a non-musician is way more fun and rewarding than impressing your peers.
        But that's just me.
        I want to depart this world the same way I arrived; screaming and covered in someone else's blood

        The most human thing we can do is comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable.

        My Blog: http://newcenstein.com

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        • #5
          Re: Is great technique wasted on non-musicians?

          [ QUOTE ]
          Compliments from fellow guitarists are always a great thing, but to me, doing something that impresses a non-musician is way more fun and rewarding than impressing your peers.
          But that's just me.

          [/ QUOTE ]

          +1
          "There is nothing more fearful than imagination without taste" - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

          "To be stupid, selfish and have good health are three requirements for happiness, though if stupidity is lacking, all is lost" - Gustave Flaubert

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          • #6
            Re: Is great technique wasted on non-musicians?

            I am a technical player - always have been. I just happen to be naturally fast and dexterous. I can do most of the fancy fast stuff as fast as anybody with the exception of 2 handed tapping because I don't practice it.

            I play it because I like to play it. But I always think in the back of my mind - Big Deal. So what if I can play at so many bpm or notes per second or run sweep arpeggios up and down the entire neck.

            In the end I don't think any of it matters. It may to other shredders or technicrats (is that a word?).

            But to me I prefer memorable songs. Hell I like a lot of pop songs that have great grooves. Probably embarass myself here but to make a point here are some pop songs that I thought have great writing that I still like...Carless Whispers - George Michael, Loverboy - Billy Ocean, Hold The Line - Toto, Baby Come Back - Player, Dirty White Boy - Foreigner, Dr. Love - Kiss, etc...

            I prefer listening to the memorable solos of Uli Roth or Michael Schenker or EVH with their expressiveness and killer vibrato as opposed to the blistering speed of Rusty Cooley of Francesco Ferrari.

            I think it has something to do with the emotions of the listener. Memorable songs evoke an emotional response where technique does not. It may impress but it does not make memories or take you back in time like a song that reminds you of some chick long ago in a different time and place.
            PLAY TILL U DIE !!!

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            • #7
              Re: Is great technique wasted on non-musicians?

              [ QUOTE ]
              So what if I can play at so many bpm or notes per second or run sweep arpeggios up and down the entire neck.

              ...

              I prefer listening to the memorable solos of Uli Roth or Michael Schenker or EVH with their expressiveness and killer vibrato as opposed to the blistering speed of Rusty Cooley of Francesco Ferrari.

              [/ QUOTE ]

              That's where I was going with this. I know that when I pop in a new CD, there is a point where "fast" is good enough, and "faster" doesn't add anything to the listening experience. From time to time, I'll see a very talented band that overplays and starts to lose me. Gotta have hooks! There seem to be a lot of young up-and-coming bands that are amazingly talented, but try so hard to push the boundaries of playing that the songs get left by the wayside. It's a shame, really.
              sigpic

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              • #8
                Re: Is great technique wasted on non-musicians?

                I wish I could play amazingly fast. I can barely play up to speed to Lamb of God - Laid to Rest and I've been playing that riff for months.

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                • #9
                  Re: Is great technique wasted on non-musicians?

                  I can play as "fast" as just about anyone I know, two-handed tapping included. How "fast" can I play? Too fast. Speed and technique are just tools in your toolbox, or brushes that you can ues to paint with. Playing guitar for me is about expressing myself through music, and being able to play fast and technical are useful in expressing myself sometimes, but if I'm not feeling what I'm "shredding", then it is just pointless guitar masturbating. some of the most memorable parts in DUDEFUCKINHELLYEAH! songs are the slower parts that find a groove buried in your soul...

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                  • #10
                    Re: Is great technique wasted on non-musicians?

                    [ QUOTE ]
                    I can play as "fast" as just about anyone I know, two-handed tapping included. How "fast" can I play? Too fast. Speed and technique are just tools in your toolbox, or brushes that you can ues to paint with. Playing guitar for me is about expressing myself through music, and being able to play fast and technical are useful in expressing myself sometimes, but if I'm not feeling what I'm "shredding", then it is just pointless guitar masturbating. some of the most memorable parts in DUDEFUCKINHELLYEAH! songs are the slower parts that find a groove buried in your soul...

                    [/ QUOTE ]

                    Yeah thats why I crack up when I hear people say this guy or that guy is the best or the fastest or the greatest shredder of all time etc....

                    There are guys all over who can plays as good as the best who play in their bedrooms and will never be famous.

                    There are just too many styles out there for one thing and they all have something to offer. Yngwie cannot play the same as Vai who can't play the same as T.J. Helmerich etc...
                    And how about Stanley Jordan. There are tons and tons of great players. There is no best single player. But the ones that stand out come up with Grooves and Hooks and great MUSIC.

                    Bob Dylan is a great example of not having to be a great guitarist to be a great musician. Hooks, Lyrics and Soul. Thats what music is about.

                    Not all the time but typically the guys that are know for their speed or their ability to shred all of the time don't come up with the greatest tunes. They focus on their technique which is fine if thats your thing. I'll admit that is what I do because I enjoy it and it comes easy to me. But I don't make a living in music and I don't need to communicate with an audience. I think the shredding thing is more of an ego thing - like being a big macho football player or something.
                    PLAY TILL U DIE !!!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Is great technique wasted on non-musicians?

                      ...Or comparing notes in the gym of how many lbs you can squat, bench, and whatever.

                      Technical ability does play a major factor in what you CAN play, but should never dictate what you SHOULD play. Less is more, more is more, more is less, less is less, whatever skool you want to subscribe to, the greatest-selling songs in the history of Rock do not have blistering, technically-astounding solos or intricate passages.

                      Stairway To Heaven anyone? Continually voted the #1 most-requested song in Rock Radio, and it:
                      -Does not have technically astounding passages
                      -Does not have a very technical solo (and it's got a few clams in it)
                      -Was never released as a single!

                      Vai, Malmsteen, et al, impress other musicians and give them someone to aim for. For Joe Record-Buyer, it loses its "wow factor" after 2 songs at most.

                      If your goal is to impress fellow musicians, by all means, study hard and have at it. I'd rather get heads bobbing and hips swaying and provide soundtracks to romantic interludes than spur someone to sit in a room by themselves drilling scales and memorizing modes [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]
                      I want to depart this world the same way I arrived; screaming and covered in someone else's blood

                      The most human thing we can do is comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable.

                      My Blog: http://newcenstein.com

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Is great technique wasted on non-musicians?

                        yeah shredding isn't it all, I really like a lot of slow solos that have wicked vabrato. But seriously guys don't for get the goodness of shred. Like you have to have technique and emotion to be the best player. Shredding all the time isn't that great its at its peak when ur playing something slow and just let it rip enough so that the people listening are like whoa what the hell was that?!?! that was cool!! That is when shredding is at its greatest. [img]/images/graemlins/headbang.gif[/img]

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                        • #13
                          Re: Is great technique wasted on non-musicians?

                          To add to what ace said about licks and technique being your toolbox..... I recently attended a victor wooten clinic, and he had an amazing way of looking at it (forgive the awfull paraphrazing.....hes a really elloquent speaker) "If you take a look at a contractor like you would a guitar/bass player when they are playing way too fast it would really seem funny.....imagine he shows up and builds a ragged ass house thats falling all over......you say, dude what are you thinking....that house is shit......and he responds, yeah but look at how clean my tools are!!" [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]
                          www.soundclick.com/matthewpigott

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                          • #14
                            Re: Is great technique wasted on non-musicians?

                            [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] that was great.

                            Wooten has amazing chops but he always goes with the less is more approach. I saw a video where he and Carter Beauford did a fusion project. Wooten said that when he writes a song on a bass then has plays all those chords, licks, solos and whatnot but when he records with the full band then he ends up playing the most simple bass lines, he plays for the song.
                            "There is nothing more fearful than imagination without taste" - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

                            "To be stupid, selfish and have good health are three requirements for happiness, though if stupidity is lacking, all is lost" - Gustave Flaubert

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Is great technique wasted on non-musicians?

                              Someone said a while back on this forum " A guitar solo has never sold a record to anybody". The song has got to be good and a solo can at best only enhance a good song.

                              Heres the science bit:

                              Good song with good solo = Brilliant song
                              Bad song with amazing solo = Bad song

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