recording multiple tracks: 2 vs 4

[Fragle]

i have 3 questions regarding multi-tracking

1st, what do you guys prefer, recording two (one left one right), or four (two left, two right) tracks of the same rhythm?

2nd, i've been doing quite a lot of home recording during the past few months, and i've noticed that it's a lot harder to achieve a really tight sound when recording only
2 tracks in contrast to 4. somehow recording 4 tracks fills out the small differences in timing (i'm talking really small here, of course you'll notice a really bad timing fukkup). basically, when i record 4 tracks, and have a tight sound, i might notice some slight synch issues when solo-ing 2 tracks. do you also notice this, and if so, what's the reason, i.e. am i right with my explanation (4 tracks fill out....)?

3rd, lets say you recorded 4 tracks of a rhythm, two left two right. now, if you want to add a harmony (a la melodic death metal), do you record another set of 4 tracks playing the harmony and lay them on top of the 4 basic tracks, creating 8 tracks in total, or do you stick to a total of 4 tracks and use only 2 tracks doing the basic rhythm and 2 doing the harmony?
(this sounds messed up lol...i hope you get the point)

thanks in advance

[Endrik]

Re: recording multiple tracks: 2 vs 4

experiment with a lot of different combinations.

Record TONS of tracks, at least 8 different rhythm tracks, you can later mute them if you don't need them.

the basic heavy rock/heavy metal is the simple one overdub and double track method.

Just record your track, then double track it, pan one hard left the other hard right.
Then record the second track and do the same thing, pan one hard left the other hard right.
This is the most basic method.
For really heavy metal rhythm do exactly the same thing, only quadtrack instead of toubletrack, pan 2 tracks hard left and 2 track hard right and do the same with the second take, 2 tracks left and 2 tracks right.

To get a great variety of sounds, record many different tracks. Use different amps, settings, pedals etc.
Take 3 different tones for example. 1st, scooped brutal metal tone 2nd very crunchy mid range tone 3rd something that has both of them (like Metallica).
Now record two tracks of those 3 tones.
Then double or quad track them all. And pan them all hard left and right. Mix by your needs, turn some tone down, something up or whatever. Experiment.

You can record more and more tracks if you like, you can do 8 different tones if you want to. Overdub each, quadtrack 'em. Then you have 64 track of rhythm. Or do even more.

Do whatever you want.

Later EQ 'em, just use your ear.

If there are some synch issues, then you need to practice more, you can be badass gtr player but recording something totally different, it takes some time to record perfect takes. Just practice that. If there ar still issues, then there is something wrong how you mix the tracks.

About the harmonies, record them as much you can. More is better. Record 4 instead of 2.

All the great bands record a lot of tracks.
Some rock bands records a couple of crunchy rock tracks for their main tone but also records some really heavy metal rhytm tracks. Later the metal track is turned down to the mix, you can't really hear that tone but it makes the guitar and the whole mix very heavy and full sounding. Even some pop artists do that.

[Fragle]

Re: recording multiple tracks: 2 vs 4

thanks for the detailed post! lots of interesting stuff in there

i totally agree, practicing multi tracking is the best thing you can do. i definitely became a better rhythm player in all situations by doing that. on top of that, imho this is the very best thing you can do in order to prepare for a real pro studio situation. (slightly off topic: does anyone of you have some more advice how one can prepare for a pro studio recording?)

one question regarding the harmony thing, though.
lets say i have a riff that i repeat 4 times, twice without any harmonies, and then twice with a harmony on top of it. basically, what i would do is record the basic riff 4 times (2 left 2 right), 4 repeats. to add the harmony, i would now go back and record another 4 tracks of the harmony, repeated twice.
now, the problem is that now i first have 2 repeats of 4 tracks, and then the other 2 repeats with the harmony are 8 tracks in total. this tends to create a volume problem, because the harmonized part is louder than the normal one. how can i solve this? i can't turn down the harmony overdub, as i want it to stand out clearly. i also cannot reduce the volume for the last two repeats of both the basic track and the harmony, because this would also reduce the volume of the first two repeats (logical...)

maybe i should record 2 repeats without a harmony, then use another 4 tracks for the second 2 repeats, basic track, and add the harmony on top of that.....but doesn't this add up to an insane amount of audio tracks, because i'm using a seperate track for pretty much every section?

[Endrik]

Re: recording multiple tracks: 2 vs 4

I would personally keep the 4 tracks and add the harmony parts to it. You can adjust the volume level with faders (the controllers wich are used to do fade in and fade out). It should solve the problem. Let's say your riff starts at 0:00, one riff is 10 seconds long, the harmony parts start at 0:20. So take each separate track and use the faders. Take the track, "mark" it or insert the time where the harmony is (0:20-0:40) and reduce the db-s there with both controlls (initial and final). Let's say you reduce it by 5dbs. There should be two controlls, use them both, if you use only one, then you make fade in or fade out effect. So there you basically have a track wich is 0db at 0:00-0:20, -5db at 0:20-0:40 and 0db at 0:40-....... do this with each track, reduce the .... amount of dbs until your harmony part has the same volume as the non-harmony part.

[Dreamland_Rebel]

Re: recording multiple tracks: 2 vs 4

always record a right and a left rythme.

when i record i use a direct box. and send a dry, off the pickup, singnal to the board. and mute it.

before mixdown, i send the dry track out the computer to the Reamp ( www.reamp.com ) box and then to the front of an amp mic'd and back in.

i do this for all guitar tracks.

that way i can get any guitar sound i want and only have to record the track right once. and that gives me at the very least 4 rythme tracks. 2 right and 2 left.

[Newc]

Re: recording multiple tracks: 2 vs 4

If you're recording straight into a PC as opposed to a standalone unit, record the one rhythm track and make copies of it, then insert those copies into the other tracks, panning them hard left/right.
You can EQ them to shape their tones later.
This eliminates all synch issues between the rhythm tracks themselves.

The extra volume you're experiencing is exactly why you find multiple instruments playing the same thing in an orchestra - doubling=volume.

To compensate for the extra volume, back each track down a tad. You'd be surprised how low a track can be but still be clearly audible when it's doubled.

As well, you'll want your harmonies to have a totally different EQ shape from your main rhythm to reduce the effect of low-high-low volume. This lets them stand out without altering the volume as much.

A more advanced method would be to select the sections of the main rhythm that are being harmonized and decrease the volume only in those sections.

If you're doing all this on a standalone unit, you're pretty much screwed unless it has extremely deep editing functions like a PC/DAW.

As for preparing for a pro studio: practice practice practice. Have all your ideas written down neatly, and in a specific, logical order, so that when it's time to do something, you're not wasting your money and their time by trying to decide what you want to do next.
Also make sure you are warmed up and ready to play - get there early if you can and find a quiet corner to warm up in. Once the light turns on and the meter's running, don't panic.

It also helps to meet with studio people (engineer, whoever) to see how they do things. They might be Obsessive Compulsive about certain things, and it'll be a smoother session if you go along with that.
If they're the type that constantly interrupts your session with suggestions, I'd demand a refund immediately.
I don't mind a fella makin a buck, but milking a paying customer with pointless interruptions just plain sucks.

[diablomozart]

Re: recording multiple tracks: 2 vs 4

i usually record only two rhtyhm tracks...one left and one right...panned hard left and right...i always manually record them...never adt...of course there are songs i have done where i have only done one rhythm track as well...i guess it depends on the sound you are after for the song...the only rule to remember when recording is there are no real rules...follow your ears...d.m.

[Dreamland_Rebel]

Re: recording multiple tracks: 2 vs 4

listen to any of the the old van halen records.

1 guitar hard left and dry, guitar effexts in the right ear only. and everything else up or near the middle.

[Fragle]

Re: recording multiple tracks: 2 vs 4

ok, thanks so far.
i'm not sure if my recording software allows me to reduce the volume of only a certain part of a track. i'll check it out.
btw, maybe the whole synch issues thing was misleading. i'm more talking about mistakes, e.g. half hit notes, another string ringing for a short second etc. i feel those are covered up by recording another 2 tracks and panning them on top of those.

right now i'm only using a pod 2.0 direct into my pc, mainly recording riffs and songs i came up with so i can remember them. however, i'm still recording a lot of tracks even for rough riffing parts, in order to practice!
because this is the deal.....once we're done with the whole songwriting thing we'll enter a pro studio and record it. now, those other guys in my band already recorded 3 full length albums (at the same studio, too), so they do have quite some experience. i haven't. now, my idea is that i should be as well prepared for a full blown studio situation as possible, so the other guys get the impression that i'm fast and precise in the studio. chances are that otherwise i'd not record one single note, except maybe for a few leads. on top of that, for those last 3 records (not sure about the first one, but the last 2 definitely) all guitars were done by the other guitar player. back then, he did write all the music, so this is understandable.
now, we haven't started writing yet so it's still unsure, however, they WANT me to co-write a lot of the stuff. and I don't want to have my stuff recorded by the other dude.

ok, all this rambling aside, the other reason why i'm asking this is that i'm really interested in recording basics, e.g. multi tracking, panning, EQing etc etc etc...

[Shawn Lutz]

Re: recording multiple tracks: 2 vs 4

I also record multi rhythm tracks with different amps/guitars and often times different chord voicings or inversions. I don't have planned panning scheme for mixdown but I never do hard left, hard right on rhythms, I spread multiple rhythms around in the mix.

For leads I like double and tripple tracking. I record a bunch of takes and pan them in the mix as well. I don't ever copy and past tracks, I prefer the Randy Rhoads way of playing them by themselves. You get slight variations in timing betwen the tracks that mixed together sound huge and something I can't get by copying takes.

Each thing for me is different and I do multiple mixdowns for my stuff.

[Dreamland_Rebel]

Re: recording multiple tracks: 2 vs 4

Fragle, i recommend you go to tapeop.com and sign up for there free mag. it is a great informational and insperational mag for recording.