tuning question

[Fragle]

atm i'm using either a boss tu-2 or my pod2.0's built in tuner. the thing is, when tuning to pitch with either of these my ears tell me i'm slightly out of tune, particulary the G and B strings. kinda sucks for playing live, too, as i cannot double check with my ears without blasting full volume through the PA. and of course, right now i don't know who's right, my ears or the tuner?

another thing....ok, this sounds like a real newb question, but well: what's the best way of tuning a guitar? do you tune the open string to pitch (directly after plucking it, or when the string's sustaining? do you pick softly or like usual, i.e. harder?) or the 12th fret harmonic? or do you tune completely by ear, taking the lowest string as a reference from the tuner and the remaining by ear? also, when tuning by ear, to you just tune for example the D string to the a string at the 5th fret, or do you use the 5th and 7th fret harmonics, using the E strings 7th fret for tuning the b string?

i never really cared about this, but lately my ears improved a lot, and i started to notice these little nuances more, which again makes me think about the "proper" way of tuning a guitar.

any comments?

[rEs]

Re: tuning question

- it sounds like your guitar needs an intonation, check it out
- tune by sustain, the pitch rises during the attack because the string stretches slightly, you can see this on rack or meter tuners
- the 12th fret harmonic and open string are exactly the same note even if your intonation is off, but you can use either one to compare it to the fretted 12th and fretted 24th (or your highest fret)...if you can't get them all exact, try to get them somewhat equal
- unfortunately, by design, guitars and pianos use notes that are mathematically divided so that they will sound in tune in all keys, so the reality is no guitar or piano is perfectly in tune...this is glaringly obvious when playing an instrument tuned to a specific key/temperment/microtuning, ie the notes in a chord will not beat against each other...check out www.hermode.com for a detailed explanation...I saw a tv show about this and the non-microtuned instrument was unbearable to listen to by comparison
- one trick is to tune your guitar as normal, then tune every other string very slightly sharp, ie tune your A, G, and high E strings, this reduces some of the notes beating against each other and is along the same lines as the Buzz Feiten tuning system, which goes one step further and uses a specific nut too, although I know one luthier who thinks using a Feiten nut is complete nonsense and uses a regular (non-raised) 0 fret instead.

[Fragle]

Re: tuning question

"one trick is to tune your guitar as normal, then tune every other string very slightly sharp, ie tune your A, G, and high E strings"
this is pretty much what i'm doing when retuning by ear. the part where the tuner tells me i'm out of tune, but it doesn't sound like i am.

"tune by sustain, the pitch rises during the attack because the string stretches slightly, you can see this on rack or meter tuners"
yep, i know that the pitch is higher when attacking the string. but as i said, i'm not sure whether the attack should be in tune, or the sustained note, because esp. when playing fast there isn't any sustain, so the "attack pitch" is the one that's audible.

"- it sounds like your guitar needs an intonation, check it out"
no, it doesn't. already checked that. 12th fret harmonic and 12th fret fretted are pretty much the same. not 100% dead on, but very close. besides when playing high up on the neck most guys are either playing really fast, or use at least some degree of vibrato which makes *slight* intonation issues inaudible anyway.

[Ace]

Re: tuning question

I tune to the attack, as do most pro guitar techs. I use a tempered tuning as well, the guitar setting in my Peterson. And I often tune the 12th fret harmonic, especially on lower strings, since more vibrations makes tuning easier. Pick the way that you do when you are playing. If you tune by picking softly and tune to the sustain and then strat thrashing around full speed with a heavy hand your gonna come out WAY sharp.

[rEs]

Re: tuning question

To clarify, I should have said "during intonation, tune by sustain because...the pitch goes sharp during the attack". Sorry about that.

[Fragle]

Re: tuning question

yeah, during intonation, of course. i though you were refering to the normal tuning.
ace, i'm with you. i used to have a very light touch, but lately i've developed a much more aggressive and hard one, and my tone greatly improved. but as you said, if i tune how i used to tune, i often end up sharp when playing. now, on the other hand, what about long sustained solo lines? if i tune to attack, won't a long sustained solo not come out flat then? although as i said, vibrato is going to change the pitch anyways.

[Ace]

Re: tuning question

You may come up a bit flat when sustaining a note, but you have to remember that the guitar is NOT a perfect instrument as far as tuning goes, you've got to do the best with what you've got.

[skorb]

Re: tuning question

it is nice to know it's not just me having these tuning inconsistencies. I especially notice it when tuning my D chord, except I have to tune my G string flat to get it to sound clean as the D chord, and work from there.

helps to have a good ear, which is the one skill that I really do have. I can't shred but I have an ear. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[shredhed]

Re: tuning question

The guitar is an imperfect instrument. Because of inconsistancies with the 12 step western scale guitar's fret pasitioning is "tempered". Each one is a little out of place so that you can play in any scale.

If not for tempering the position of the frets it would only be possible to play in one key.

one way to overcome this is to play fretless. I don't care to do that so i just make sure that the action is real low so that my left hand attack doesn't strech the string sharp.

And I'm real anal about intonation. i get it dead on if it takes all night. then once that's set I don't have to mess with it again.

bob

[Nuclear Vampire]

Re: tuning question

I'm real picky about my tuning and intonation too, and I've noticed that the tuner on the POD sucks ass. I got a nice little planet waves tuner with detailed LED graduations so I can actually see how off pitch I am. Lately my KVX10 has been making my head spin. Tuning open strings and 12th fret harmonics (and 12th fret fingered notes) all appear to be in tune, but when I play chords on the G and B strings, it's out of tune. [img]/images/graemlins/scratchhead.gif[/img]

[JRTME]

Re: tuning question

I know this was said before. But the first thing I thought of when you said you played it and those strings didn't sound right is your intonation is out. But that is a good thing that means you have a good set of ears. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Brick]

Re: tuning question

sorry this sounds like a stupid question but whats intonation?

[Shawn Lutz]

Re: tuning question

I tune with the neck pickup at the 12th fret harmonics.

I also adjust by ear aftwards, if it sounds good its good [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Generally what happens is you go a ittle sharp when you fret a note, especially if you have aheavy frethand and push down. When you know what changes you majke you can adjust the intonation accordingly...

Brick. A properlyu intonated guitars open harmonic at the 12 fret will be equal to the fretted note at the 12th fret with the guitar in playing position. If thefretted note is sharp or flat you move the saddle either closer to the nut or further away...

[Brick]

Re: tuning question

thanks