So is the guitar trainer actually hurting ?

[Crusher]

My progress that is.....I have one of those Tascam guitar trainers that lets you slow down the tempo of any song. What I try to do is learn the parts from tab and play them up to what I think/sounds like the right speed. I put the CD in and try to play along and get behind within 3 seconds. If I slow the CD down to say -32 or -16 (I don't know what this is in actual time, maybe a full second?) I can play along after a couple of tries.

When I speed the CD back up to full speed, Again I can't keep up and get lost. Usually around this time I get pissed off, start yelling, throw the pick, the cat runs away and my wife starts yelling at me [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Anyway, what do you guys think? Is the trainer actually limiting my progress and having me hit a plateau? Do you recommend just playing the cd at full speed all the time and keep trying? Is there someting painfully obvious that I'm missing here? And before anyone else points out, I'm aware my gear to talent ratio is way out of whack [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Thanks guys!

[LesPaulCustom]

Re: So is the guitar trainer actually hurting ?

<font color="yellow">It sounds like you're trying to do too much too fast...I know it's frustrating not being able to play what you want to, but, you can't force technique.

Get a solid base first...break out the metronome and a method book, such as Troy Stetina's Speed Mechanics for Lead Guitar, and religiously and honestly practice the exercises and keep a log of your progress.

Break down your problem areas logically and methodically, gradually building up speed.

Then, once you have achieved a certain level of technique and proficiency, incorporate licks/solos/rhythms you want to learn.

Make excercises out of them, and then gradually combine them together.

It sounds like a lot, but, if you do it, you will progress a lot faster than you will just mindlessly playing along with stuff that you physically can't do right now.

Don't take the above as a slam bro...all of us have been there....it's what we need to do to get better. </font>

[Reverend Timmy]

Re: So is the guitar trainer actually hurting ?

Look at it as building blocks.To gain speed,build stamina.To build stamina,use a metronome and a practice plan.LPC is right,start by putting them together and make exercises out of them and have a little patience,it will all come together............

[jjw]

Re: So is the guitar trainer actually hurting ?

dont run before you can walk mate,take your time and get things SMOOTHworth it in the end

[kmanick]

Re: So is the guitar trainer actually hurting ?

"I'm aware my gear to talent ratio is way out of whack "
that's priceless! [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]
get a metronome, practice slow-----------fast.
Like Justin says , dont' try to run before you can walk.
It's easy to play fast and sloppy, geting rid of the sloppy part takes time.

[Crusher]

Re: So is the guitar trainer actually hurting ?

I have been playing with a metronome a lot more lately, just playing scales but how to correctly play with the metronome still confuses the shit out of me. I know for every click, it's a quarter note. If I play 2 notes in between clicks, that's 1/8th note. If I play 4 notes in between clicks, that's 1/16th notes. When I'm doing just regular 1-2-3-4 up and down the neck, I can play pretty quickly, currently at 88bpm on the metronome, 4 notes per click.

When I'm trying to play out a solo or other exercise that isn't a regular 1-2-3-4 type run, should I just play everytime I hear a click and just change the speed accordingly? Or do I break it down to 4 notes, play those at each click, then play the next 4 etc.?

[LesPaulCustom]

Re: So is the guitar trainer actually hurting ?

<font color="yellow">Crusher:

The 1-2-3-4 thing is good for coordination exercises and crossing strings to a point...but, there are a lot of other good exercises to do for crossing strings leading with either a upstroke or downstroke too.

Really, buy yourself Speed Mechanics for Lead Guitar by Troy Stetina, he breaks down picking into almost every concevieble combination, and there is a CD to hear what it's supposed to sound like at different tempos.

Yes, 1/8 notes will be 2 per beat, triplets will be 3 notes per beat, 16th notes is 4 per beat...some metronomes will sound out the notes also for the groupings.

Play with the beat and change the groupings accordingly (1/8th, 16th, triplet etc.).

</font>

[SeventhSon]

Re: So is the guitar trainer actually hurting ?

Obviously, someone's solo is not going to be JUST 1/16 notes or JUST 1/8 notes. Although a solo will often contain those kind of runs. The point of practicing 1/8 and 1/16 notes against a metronome is so that you can eventually HEAR and FEEL how those notes fill out a beat. Then when you're listening to a solo and there's a series of 1/8 notes (or 1/16 notes) you'll immediately know. That's why you should practice triplets as well. But phrases are sometimes way more complex. But the point is there's no sense in attacking the complex if you haven't got a handle on the relatively simple. So continue practicing with the metronome.

A word of warning about getting too carried away with the metronome. Sometimes a phrase will just be the guy playing as fast as he can. Or playing extremely rubato. In both cases, it makes no sense to try and break it down to exact, evenly spaced out subdivisions of the beat (which i *think* was the gist of one of your questions).

Anyway, a solo will consist of phrases...some easy, some complex. What I do when I'm learning a phrase that i can't figure out after a few listens is that i'll use a phrase trainer to loop that phrase. I will adjust the beginning and end of the loop so that it loops around seamlessly after 4 or 8 beats (i.e., the beginning of the loop comes right back on 1). Unfortunately, you cannot get that precise with the tascam unit. I use a software program called traskriber (reedkotler.com) that allows you do adjust the beginning and end of the loop down to the 1/100th of a second and then save off the settings so you can recall that exact loop at a later time. anyway, at that point, you can loop the phrase indefinitely and it sounds very musical. then you can slow it down etc. Now this will sound strange, but at some point you will connect with the guitarist at a musical level and you'll understand exactly what he was doing and how to phrase it. once you are *there*, you'll know exactly where he's playing it on the fretboard, what fingers he's using, what ghost notes he's hitting, etc.

Copping a solo is more than just the mechanics of where and when to place the fingers. You are connecting at a musical/spirtual level with the guitarist. That's why I think smoking good weed helps this process immensely. YMMV.

[horns666]

Re: So is the guitar trainer actually hurting ?

Some of you guys really make a project out of all this...

all I do is play from my heart and just go for it..

works for me!

don't think so much..just play and most importantly..have fun!

I write pretty complex riffs that I can't play at first...then I play them until I can..my own stuff..not other people stuff..

I'll let them inspire me..like Jeff Loomis..but the time it would take me to learn one of his songs..I could be writing my own.

Depends if you want to be a cover player or a original writer..

I'd much rather create than copy!

I found most players excel at either one or the other.

but the world needs both!

[jgcable]

Re: So is the guitar trainer actually hurting ?

[ QUOTE ]
Some of you guys really make a project out of all this...

all I do is play from my heart and just go for it..

works for me!

don't think so much..just play and most importantly..have fun!

I write pretty complex riffs that I can't play at first...then I play them until I can..my own stuff..not other people stuff..

I'll let them inspire me..like Jeff Loomis..but the time it would take me to learn one of his songs..I could be writing my own.

Depends if you want to be a cover player or a original writer..

I'd much rather create than copy!

I found most players excel at either one or the other.

but the world needs both!

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm with you Bill. I take a much simpler approach. If I can hum it.. I can play it. I do most of my "guitar solo learning" just listening to the song. Occasionally I'll slow something down because of the mix but for the most part its listen----play.
As far as original solo's... I just play what I feel.

[SeventhSon]

Re: So is the guitar trainer actually hurting ?

I agree...I recently copied a SRV solo note for note and it took me weeks on-and-off and it was like what's the point? there's a point of diminishing returns.

but crusher's question is about how you learn a rhythmically complex phrase. and the answer is that you really LISTEN to it to get inside the head of the guitarist at a musical level, and the best way to do that is to loop the phrase. that's all i'm saying.

[jgcable]

Re: So is the guitar trainer actually hurting ?

[ QUOTE ]
I agree...I recently copied a SRV solo note for note and it took me weeks on-and-off and it was like what's the point? there's a point of diminishing returns.

but crusher's question is about how you learn a rhythmically complex phrase. and the answer is that you really LISTEN to it to get inside the head of the guitarist at a musical level, and the best way to do that is to loop the phrase. that's all i'm saying.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly. I agree 100%.