Metal Modes

[Model 6 Matt]

Noobie here, and noobie to modes.
I know relative minor and major etc, but when im playing a metal type thing with my mates, i.e. drop D style riffs, it doesnt sound right to blaze away in the major, too bluesy sounding, so what modes are best for metal type sound?

Thanks

[ApeDosMil]

Arabic style scales

[Model 6 Matt]

Are you trying to trick me???
I aint that much of a noob!

[texasfury]

locrian, the most evil of the modes.

[Model 6 Matt]

Evil sounds evil, or Evil very hard to make sound good? being the last of the modes?

[jjw]

well you have to play the mode that matches the chord prog mate.Metalica and other bands used a lot of flat 2nds in their tunes so phygian covers that well with its minor 3rd/7th/flat 6and of course flat 2nd.
you of course want that Flat 5th as well for that evil sound
To be honest i only use the major scale modes when i play,but i add other notes for colour (you know to make it harmoic minor or melodic minor)
I havnt heard many locrian tunes.lol.seen Gambale shred on his dvd's and vinnie moore play a little of it on his vids(after saying he doeasnt realy play it!like most guitarists out there)but it does have a dark sound
perhaps try youtube for some vids?
anyway if you if know your modal major scales well,your sorted.good luck

[Model 6 Matt]

Cheers, ill write out the chord progression and see how i go from there with some modes.
Thanks for the help guys!

[metalhead28]

JJW is right on. It all depends on the chord progression.
For what it's worth, if you're playing metal a safe bet is that most of your chord progressions and therefore alot of your lead playing will fall into minor keys. Therefore you'll probably concentrate mostly on the minor modes. Aeolian primarily as it is the natural minor scale, and Dorian and Phrygian if they sound correct with the chord progression. Dorian and Aeolian are often interchangable with only the 6th note differing. Dorian over an Aeolian progression still sounds cool I think. Phrygian has the bold sound of a flat 2nd just like JJW suggested, so you'll often use that in the ever popular E5/F5 change that you see everywhere in metal. It helps if you can modulate between different modes by just raising or lowering a note here and there in your fingering instead of totally rethinking the scale you're playing in. I often end up playing a scale containing notes from each of the minor modes rolled together as it opens up the fretboard a little more and can lend an interesting sound sometimes.
Of course Harmonic Minor is also a cool scale, as is it's 5th mode, Phrygian Dominant in a metal context. Very exotic sounding.
Chromatics of course work in metal quite often too. At least as passing tones when you're playing within a minor mode. When you work out some patterns and fingerings in a certain key, try tossing in outside notes here and there. That's where some of the most flavorful playing comes from in my opinion.
All of this is easier to implement if you write your chord progressions around the modes first and foremost. Most people do that unconsciously anyway, but it's something to think about.

[Model 6 Matt]

Cheers, thats really helpful information, i want to start writting a song that sounds good, not just what i make up, althought that sounds good too, i guess ill have to formulate the song more, write down the chords then see what will fit over it nicely.
Thanks again for all your help, im off to write history!

[jjw]

yeahh metalhead knows the score mate.you also have to know these modal notes as he clearly does.once you know these lydian 4ths or mixolydiany major 3rds/dom 7ths(metal-play that HM5 scale in a blues tune for great results too!)then you realy understand how the scales relate to each other

[Brick]

Play the Tri tone! mwhahahahahahah diminished scales are wicked

[shredmonster]

Metal focuses on certain intervals between notes more than any one mode - although you have to follow the progression of course.

Work with the half steps between the major second and minor thirds in any mode or scale. Also work with the tonic and minor third note.
Diminished is good but it's use has limitations. Also work with the chords and patterns in the harmonic minor scale - especially the the change between the sharp 7th and the tonic.

[metalhead28]

Metal focuses on certain intervals between notes more than any one mode - although you have to follow the progression of course.

Work with the half steps between the major second and minor thirds in any mode or scale. Also work with the tonic and minor third note.
Diminished is good but it's use has limitations. Also work with the chords and patterns in the harmonic minor scale - especially the the change between the sharp 7th and the tonic.

I'm really trying to understand what you're saying there. Are you saying don't focus on minor modes but rather just focus on playing a minor 3rd with any scale? Or are you saying that as long as you have a minor third it will work in metal? I'm just confused by your explanation, that's all.

Anyway, I am just sitting here thinking a little more about soloing in metal in general....

If you really get down to it, you can use anything in a metal context. I am actually a big fan of playing "outside" sometimes. As long as you know how to bring it back home, venturing outside the boundaries is what makes playing fun.

Sometimes I will shift phrases up the fretboard a half step or a minor third or something, just long enough to raise some tension, then I'll bring it back in. Sometimes I don't even acknowledge what mode or scale I'm implying. Usually I'm flirting with more than one or I'm adding in fragments of symetrical scales anyway. I play a certain symetrical scale sometimes that is just three notes per string, each a minor third apart. You can play shapes like that almost anywhere and because of the odd intervals it can fit without sounding like it's necessarily out of key. It can be just an exotic sounding flurry of notes. If I'm mixing it up I will go for odd intervals every time. Take that same shape and add a half step move at either end and you're talking quirky sounding super sweetness.

Alot of it comes from your phrasing too. In fact I think it's entirely possible to play a major scale and keep it sounding interesting and even "metal" if you're creative with your phrasing. Especially if you can stay away from too much scalar spewing where you are just running up and down with too many adjacent intervals. That's when you really recognize the character of the scale you're playing. If you stay away from certain notes and certain note sequences you can almost make any scale work for you....

Then again if you really know the major scale, you could not even worry about which modes work and just move a couple of notes around. Move the 3rd at least, and let the 6th and the 7th just fall where they feel right. If you keep the major 7th, you've got a bit of harmonic minor happening, if you keep the major 6th, you've got a bit of a Dorian thing going for you. I like thinking about scales that way. You're really playing in different modes but it might help to think about which notes you're changing instead.

Okay, so I'm just thinking too much about this and generally spewing a bunch of nonsense. I'll stop now.

[shredmonster]

Playing different intervals will give you different sounds due to the tension it causes.
Metal tends to stress certain tensions is all I am saying. For the most part it stresses the notes I metioned in the previous post.

Playing outside the box is great. Phrasing, all that stuff is excellent.

A mode is nothing other than sticking to one position in a scale stressing whatever the tonic note of that position is. Technically you could play all seven modes in one position by stressing various notes and using them as the tonic.
Nothing wrong with that - staying in one postion. But to me that limits creativity as opposed to moving all over the guitar.

What I did is learn each postion of the scale or "mode" as it is called. Then I took each mode and moved it up and down the neck be stressing the same tensions and intervals.
I worked with different scales - major/minor, harmonic minor, major blues, diminished, chromatic, etc.... Then I learned how to combine those scales into solos over chords. So now when I solo I use all those scales in one solo. That is because I know what to stress in each of the scales and what to play as passing notes to fit what I am playing.
So when I play metal I stress what fits. Metal usually is played in the minor so I stress the minor thirds, 1/2 steps of the major second and minor third, etc... If I was playing in the Major I would be stressing major seconds and major thirds etc.. during the solos.

[metalhead28]

I just re-read my last post and that has prompted even more spewage about modes.....I think about this shit way too much. I don't even know if the original poster or anyone else for that matter cares to read about this but I just feel like babbling.

Look at the notes on the guitar. You've got 12 notes, right?
Look at which of those notes are correct for a major scale.
You've got the root, skip one, you've got a major second, skip one, you've got a major third, then a perfect fourth, skip one, a perfect fifth, skip one, a major sixth, skip one, a major 7th. That's it. If you look at the notes you skipped I think interpreting modes gets easier.

You only left out 5 notes. You're gonna use those 5 notes in the other modes. Every last one of them. They will all work if the situation is right. You're gonna use diminished and augmented 5th's every now and then over just about anything. It's a cool sound, you've gotta do it sometimes. You're gonna use a minor second sometimes for that bold half step sound. you're gonna use the minor third obviously. You're gonna use the minor 7th sometimes too.
I think the key is knowing what different intervals sound like. If you hit a note and you know what you want the change to the next note to feel like, you'll know what interval to go with. Even if you hit an outside note, if you can anticipate the interval or the distance to a sweet sounding note, you can make that note sound perfect too. You are never more than a half step away from a kick ass note. In fact, any note is a kick ass note as long as the note after it is a kick ass note. That's my philosophy to playing, hahaha.