I cant put songs together... How is it done?

[RobRR]

Alright, so Ive never been able to write a complete song. I think part of the problem is that I cant write lyrics. I dont know, I just never could. Ive got about 30 SOLID riffs that Id love to use though!

At the moment Im listening to Pull Me Under... and I cant help but wonder, how the hell do they do it? What comes first, riffs? Lyrics? I just cant seem to figure it out. I know its probably different for everyone, but in general, what comes first? Any lyric writing tips? Just pick a subject and have at it?

It pisses me off... Ive been playing for over 10 years and Ive got NOTHING to show for it. Ive got ideas I just dont know how to arrange them into something. HELP!!!

[petedz]

What comes first, riffs? Lyrics? I just cant seem to figure it out. I know its probably different for everyone, but in general, what comes first? Any lyric writing tips? Just pick a subject and have at it?

You're already on the right track. Doesn't matter what comes first, just do it. Put something together. Finish it. Your first few dozen efforts will suck. Expect that. Keep going. Eventually, you'll notice what works and what doesn't You'll recycle ideas from your first efforts. When that happens, you'll end up with decent songs.

FWIW, I don't mean to sound glib about it. I was exactly where you're at for years.

[RobRR]

I found http://www.easy-song-writing.com/ and read some articles. I got ALOT of good tips for lyric writing and song arrangment.

Ive got this one song imperticular... its perfect. I can hear the chorus in my head, and its awesome. I can even hear the style of singing I want. Its almost like its a song Ive been listening to for years. Its a song that when people hear, theyll remember it. Its upbeat and catchy, yet somewhat heavy. Im not usally very confident, but I KNOW that if I can get this song out of my head and recorded the right way, it will be a hit.

Now I just need to do it. Now that Ive got a baseline of how lyrics and song arrangement should be, Ive got the chours, Ive got the chorus lyrics, and Ive almost got the verse riff . Im gonna work on the verses yrics tonight and see what I can come up with. Im only going for two (MAYBE 3 if I can write them) verses, a bridge, and three or four chorus'.

Structure will be:
-Chorus riff intro with small solo fill
-verse
-chorus
-verse
-bridge
-solo
-ending chorus

Sound about right?

[Drizzt]

As far as I know, it's just a matter of inspiration. You really cant' write down a song as you do with a mathematic formula. At least, that way doesn't work for me.

[wicked_lester]

If you can, try to collaborate with other musicians. Then the creativity can really be inspired because everyone will have a different perspective on any given piece of music.

[atomic charvel guy]

I spit riffs and lyrics out like a Tommy-Gun, but I'm not too hot at making them fit, so I do much better with a partner , usually with the singer at coming up with the melody lines and how it all fits.

[Endrik]

just get yourself a snare drum, play a riff then do a triplet fill on the snare and continue playing your next riff

[petedz]

Im not usally very confident, but I KNOW that if I can get this song out of my head and recorded the right way, it will be a hit.

Make some rough recordings so you don't lose the ideas. I forget most of my songs before anybody ever hears them. If you don't have anything else, even a boom box works. I can't sing, so I play the vocal parts on keys or guitar.

[levantin]

What I usually do is hum along to a riff for vocal ideas, structure the song with just rhythm guitar, drums and bass, then write the vocals based on what I hummed earlier, then go back and rearrange the riff according to vocal ideas, lock in all the drum and bass nuances, add and/or subtract parts then layer guitar harmony upon guitar harmony untill I think it's still listenable! Basically the riff comes first and the rest all comes about together.

I find that sometimes I focus too much on a part that isn't working and get stuck, then go have a few beers/coffee/whatever and come back and it all just falls into place.

For lyric writing, I think it's important to really know what you want to say, and how you're going to approach it. Get that figured out, I mean really sit down and think/read a book/watch a film etc. I get all these thoughts together and whittle them down into lyric ideas. Sort of like starting with a big ass block of stone and carving out an intricate statue. The more material you have the more freedom it gives you.

Oh, and most importantly, remember that this is fun.

[Jibboom]

You're already on the right track. Doesn't matter what comes first, just do it. Put something together. Finish it. Your first few dozen efforts will suck. Expect that. Keep going. Eventually, you'll notice what works and what doesn't You'll recycle ideas from your first efforts. When that happens, you'll end up with decent songs.

FWIW, I don't mean to sound glib about it. I was exactly where you're at for years.

Exactly, you to write loads get it all down, forget it if it's crap just keep going and the good songs will start too flow.

[rjohnstone]

I just plug into the 8 track and hit record.
My best friend and I bounce ideas off each other and if something sounds cool, we back up and give it a listen.
We've worked like this for years and wrote some pretty killer stuff. A lot of crap too, but hey, it comes with the territory.
We use a drum machine to work out a basic tempo and start off with a basic rythm track and then build from there.
Lyrics are the last thing we work on.
Most of our early stuff was all instrumentals, so it's just they way we write now.

[demeyes]

The way we write stuff with my band is too come up with a few riffs and our drummer gets his parts for them. Then we try and put a few together and we'll jam with those for a while. Then our singer gets his parts. There are many ways to approach a song though. Starting with lyrics works for many people too.
I recommend jamming with someone else. That way you can tell each other what sucks and the stuff should be more varied.
There is no harm in taking a couple of songs you like and writing down how they are structured and how they do changes.This could give you ideas and show you how it works for others.

[OnlineStageGear]

I just plug into the 8 track and hit record.
My best friend and I bounce ideas off each other and if something sounds cool, we back up and give it a listen.
We've worked like this for years and wrote some pretty killer stuff. A lot of crap too, but hey, it comes with the territory.
We use a drum machine to work out a basic tempo and start off with a basic rythm track and then build from there.
Lyrics are the last thing we work on.
Most of our early stuff was all instrumentals, so it's just they way we write now.

That's about how we do it a lot of the time. The computer is almsot always on while we are at practice and ya never know when a good riff or even a so-so riff but with just the right drum beat will come out. BAM, it's recorded and we go back and give it a listen.

The bridge/chorus riffs can be as simple as the same riff in a different key like the onld faithful E to A chnge or can be something completely different or can be something as simple as a couple cords held.

Matt

[omwdc]

you need the structure V-C-V-B etc - and you need lyrics and the chords - the biggest difficulty is thinking of something to sing about

[sakeido]

I build my songs around a totally solid riff. I used to just come up with crazy riff ideas and they are all pretty sweet, then I will figure out the key, write an intro, then write a couple verses, then do the chorus, and mash it all together. Only thing is then I end up with songs that are a lot like The Light That Blinds by shadows fall - totally awesome first 1:45 or so but then pretty standard for the rest of the tune.