Delay Trick/Technique

[nateb]

This might seem a little silly to some. But, I am having a issue that I am having a hard time wrapping my head around how to work with this technique. What I am talking about is using a delay for repeating notes of a sequence being playing. The best example I can think of is flight of the bumble bee by Nuno but, i have seen soem examples of Paul Gilbert doing it with simple phrases arpeggios to make him sound like he is playing way more then he actually is. The problem is that I dont understand the setup. Can someone please explain this to me and possibly give some practice examples? If you would like to hear a example, I can try to upload a clip later on.

-Nate

[Twisteramps]

Set it for dotted 8th notes. I'll see if I can record something later. you have to play fairly clean and staccato, and set your delay for one repeat, same volume as the original signal.

Pete

[Newc]

Best way to get the feel of this trick is to start with a long delay - .5 seconds or so. That gets your timing practice going. Once you get as mechanical as the delay is, shorten the delay time.

Here's two examples. I shoulda panned the Delay to one side, but each note in this short run has been struck only once. Any duplicate notes are Delay repeats (set to .5 seconds with 0% repeat, which in Digitech Gear gives only one repeat).

http://dr.newcenstein.com/Delay_exercise_1.mp3

This one is the same pattern with a .3 second delay.

http://dr.newcenstein.com/Delay_exercise_2.mp3

And this is another great one to go along with that using a Tremolo effect. The idea is to strike the note when the Tremolo mutes, so you don't hear the note being struck, but the note's sustained voice is heard when the tremolo sweeps up.
You can experiment with various sweep rate settings to make it faster or slower.

http://dr.newcenstein.com/Tremolo_exercise_1.mp3

[nateb]

Excuse the font. Want to make sure that this comes out spaced right.

Ok.... From what I can understand



Delay Exercise 1 :: Which seems to follow the dotted 8th note example of what Twister was saying.


T |1 e n a 2 e n a 3 e n a 4 e n a
A |a . . . b . . . c . . . d
D |. . a . . . b . . . c . . . d


I am trying to shoot for something like.


T |1 e n a 2 e n a 3 e n a 4 e n a 1 e n a 2 e n a 3 e n a 4 e n a
A |a . . . b . . . c . . . d . . . a . . . b . . . c . . . d
D |. . . . . . a . . . b . . . c . . . d . . . a . . . b . .


The problem is that I am working with a POD where you can set the it via milliseconds or use TAP button and then select 8th notes as your delay. Kinda cool and simple. But, in practice, it made it really difficult to work with with the example I was trying to shoot for. I will just try to KISS (Keep it simple stupid) and try it with just using a millisecond option instead.


Newc, that tremolo exercise was pretty damn cool. gonna have to try that one out. Twister, if you do record something, put it up, I would really appreciate it.


Thanks again guys.


-Nate

[Newc]

Well, it all depends on how fast you play the notes, but your "goal" looks like you'd just either play the notes a bit faster (so the "a" is repeated after you've already hit "b").
It's more of an issue of player timing than delay timing in that case.

As for the POD'd millisecond thing, Digitech rack gear like the TSR12 (what I used) does it in seconds, but IIRC 500 milliseconds is equal to 1/2 second.

Anyway it shouldn't be too hard to set the POD to that or a comparable tempo. I'd definitely start off slow, but 1 full second would probably be overkill. Then again, different delay times yield different results. Try a tapping thing similar to Eruption with various delay tempos, from superfast to really slow.

And thanks on the Tremolo thing - been working with that for a few years and it definitely has its own atmosphere once you get the speed right. With the right distortion/EQ settings you can almost get a cello/viola/violin tone.

[nateb]

I tried again last night. It's just such a different mindset of playing. Just going to take time to get use to it.

-Nate

[Newc]

Try starting off with just hammer-ons and pull-offs or taps/hammers.
Guitarist instinct is to associate the repeats with snare or kick hits, and it's too easy to try to keep hitting on those "beats".

That's especially true for the tremolo thing. Your tendancy is to pick the note on the upsweep, instead of on the downsweep, so you get a bunch of "chk".

Also for the delay thing, just try to be as mechanical as you can, because the Delay is always on the same mathematical formula.

You may also try to increase the number of repeats until you get the hang of it.

[Twisteramps]

Two very different examples in this quick audio clip:

http://members.cox.net/vhpete/delays.mp3

First one is what most people do with delays - it's layered. I played a scale and timed it so the delay would be a third behind. instant harmonies up and down.

Second one is leaving holes - this will NOT work well with hammers and pulloffs - you have to play staccato or muted and leave 'holes' for the delays to poke through. When you do this fast it sounds amazing - think albert lee, or nuno bettencourt's solo off of Extreme II (can't remember the name of it, flight of the bumblebee I think). I left the delay at the same setting for both parts.

Pete

[jjw]

Yeahh albert lee does that big time

[omwdc]

listen to some early U2

[Boxcar Willie 84]

Are you talking about the thing the Edge used to do all the time, or like Eddie Van Halen sounds on 'Cathedral'?? It took me a while to figure it out too but one day I plugged up and it just hit me all of a sudden! I instantly saved a setting for it in my DL4. Sorry I'm not much help, I guess im just trying to offer encouragement... these guys are good at the trick too www.myspace.com/classiccase

[Cinder]

Neat trick, gotta try it out