Alternate picking ... confused

[SlasZ]

I've just bought the Intense Rock Vol 1 & 2 from Paul Gilbert DVD, and in the first exercises he says to pick this sequence alternating, so using D U D strokes, like this:

-----D---U---D---U---D---U---D---U------D---U---D ......
E||--------------12--14--15--14--12--|--------------||
B||--12--13--15----------------------|--15--13--12--||
G||----------------------------------|--------------||
D||----------------------------------|--------------||
A||----------------------------------|--------------||
E||----------------------------------|--------------||

But, the way i would play it is like this:

-----U---D---U---D---U---D---U---D------U---D---U
E||--------------12--14--15--14--12--|--------------||
B||--12--13--15----------------------|--15--13--12--||
G||----------------------------------|--------------||
D||----------------------------------|--------------||
A||----------------------------------|--------------||
E||----------------------------------|--------------||

I think this is using economy picking, not skipping over a string? At high speeds my right hand has a hard time keeping up however because of U - D and D - U stroke between strings.
At slow speeds the first method works quite well and feels more natural for the right hand, but when i go a bit faster i tend to automatically use the second method (use 2 downstrokes when going to the first string).
What do you guys think is the best way to pick this, and would it be worth it to learn the first method? It will require a lot of practicing to get at the same speeds as with my method..

[tanpsi]

I'm kind of going through the same thing: relearning scales using alternate picking.

Unless you wrote the strokes wrong your second example is still alternate picking, economy picking is 2 Down or Up strokes in a row when crossing strings. But if starting on one stroke is harder practice that until you have it smooth.

I am starting to see how alternate picking gives more control and flexibility

With economy picking and 3 note per string runs, you have to start on the right note and stroke and once you get going it's kind of like a runaway train, although it's easier to play fast.

I would say it's worth putting in the time to learn alternate picking, but keep the economy picking in reserve for when you want to do some mindless shredding!!!!

Also I read an interesting thing from Vai where he would try to make tricky patterns with 1 2 3 and 4 notes per string to test and build his alternate picking.

[tanpsi]

This would be economy picking:


[/F--D---U---D---D---U---D---U---U----D---U------
E ||-------------12--14--15--14--------------------||
B|--12--13--15--------------------15--13--12------||
G||----------------------------------|--------------||
D||----------------------------------|--------------||
A||----------------------------------|--------------||
E||----------------------------------|--------------||
[/QUOTE]

[SlasZ]

This would be economy picking:


[/F--D---U---D---D---U---D---U---U----D---U------
E ||-------------12--14--15--14--------------------||
B|--12--13--15--------------------15--13--12------||
G||----------------------------------|--------------||
D||----------------------------------|--------------||
A||----------------------------------|--------------||
E||----------------------------------|--------------||

[/quote]

Yes i know, that's what i do when i go faster, but after this it's the same as in my second example, starting with an upstroke.

[drockilles]

If I get what you're saying, you want to know if you should start the sequence with an upstroke or downstroke and strictly alternate pick from there. I'd say start with the downstroke. When you start with an upstroke, your pick is kind of "trapped" between the strings going from the b to e string, which can slow you down.

[Shawn Lutz]

I'd play it ike the first illustration, start with a downstroke. Economy picking for me is dictated by where the next note of the next phrase or sequence starts...

[JC_Denton]

I've just bought the Intense Rock Vol 1 & 2 from Paul Gilbert DVD, and in the first exercises he says to pick this sequence alternating, so using D U D strokes, like this:

-----D---U---D---U---D---U---D---U------D---U---D ......
E||--------------12--14--15--14--12--|--------------||
B||--12--13--15----------------------|--15--13--12--||
G||----------------------------------|--------------||
D||----------------------------------|--------------||
A||----------------------------------|--------------||
E||----------------------------------|--------------||

But, the way i would play it is like this:

-----U---D---U---D---U---D---U---D------U---D---U
E||--------------12--14--15--14--12--|--------------||
B||--12--13--15----------------------|--15--13--12--||
G||----------------------------------|--------------||
D||----------------------------------|--------------||
A||----------------------------------|--------------||
E||----------------------------------|--------------||

I think this is using economy picking, not skipping over a string? At high speeds my right hand has a hard time keeping up however because of U - D and D - U stroke between strings.
At slow speeds the first method works quite well and feels more natural for the right hand, but when i go a bit faster i tend to automatically use the second method (use 2 downstrokes when going to the first string).
What do you guys think is the best way to pick this, and would it be worth it to learn the first method? It will require a lot of practicing to get at the same speeds as with my method..

Hey man , when i started to learn based on those videos , i also had the same rpoblem . it takes time , but if you want to be able to alternate pick then this is the only way. Now i am very happy that i learnt that approach i can alterenate pick lines like that very cleanly and if i wanted i caould still econamy pick them. It took me aoubt 2 month to get it down as fast as with econamy picking. Trust me on this it is worth to learn it like mr gilbert teaches And after 2 month or so , also i did it many hours a day, you can add another tech to you arsenal.

When you start playing more difficult stuff, then it is good when you can use many techniques, sometiems you use sweep, sometimes econamy picking , sometimes use alternate picking to get that precise and clean attack, sometimes use hybrid picking...etc



JC

[joshulator]

While the second example is not technically economy picking, it certainly is more economic than the first example. The second example is considered inside picking while the first example is outside picking. Inside picking is easier because the pick doesn't have to cross any strings, but it is still considered alternate picking because you are using an up-down motion.

There's a new video coming out (I hope) called Cracking the Code. Check out the website: http://www.troygrady.com/code.php. Troy, the guy who put this together, uses a high speed camera to film some top notch guys like Rusty Cooley, and one thing that he finds is that at faster speeds some virtuosos start to do things that they themselves are not even aware of because it happens so fast. So, for example, you may at slower speeds play example one, but as you speed up you start to play example two or three without even being aware of it.

That is not to suggest that Paul is doing this.

In my personal opinion, practicing it with strict alternate picking should be the main focus. The faster you can get doing it the hard way, the faster you'll be when you start trying more economic examples like the second and third one.

[NEWYEARKID]

Don't worry about it-anything worth doing usually takes time. My friends just gave me Rusty Cooley's The Art of Picking DVD and Todd Duane's DVD.
Needless to say..I know how you'e feeling...if alternate picking was so easy
everybody would sound like Paul Gilbert....GUESS NOT...roflmao.
Look you're a musician that plays guitar..a never endless process of listening, learning,absorbing, practicing and eventually writing your own material.
If God wanted us to take the easy way out: we'd all be D.J.s. I've never seen anyone at a Guitar Center trading their Jackson/Charvel towards a Technics turntable/mixer.

[JC_Denton]

Sorry i didnt notice, Yes the second one is NOT economy picking, i though it had 2 ups or downs in a raw but it is just like Joshulator told the inside picking.

But still when you are learning different stuff sometimes it is better to use outside picking and the other times inside picking, good know how to do both

[nsubulysses]

Don't worry about it-anything worth doing usually takes time. My friends just gave me Rusty Cooley's The Art of Picking DVD and Todd Duane's DVD.
Needless to say..I know how you'e feeling...if alternate picking was so easy
everybody would sound like Paul Gilbert....GUESS NOT...roflmao.
Look you're a musician that plays guitar..a never endless process of listening, learning,absorbing, practicing and eventually writing your own material.
If God wanted us to take the easy way out: we'd all be D.J.s. I've never seen anyone at a Guitar Center trading their Jackson/Charvel towards a Technics turntable/mixer.

DJing is very hard. You have to mix speeds on 2 records, please the crowd by not playing songs they don't want to hear, or by ruining the mood, give some girls the eye, cut into new songs and out of the old one smoothly without notice, balance the EQ so the song transitions don't sound way different, etc. There's really a ton to do at once. I don't think I could ever handle it.

Things only get more complicated if you're DJing and blending 2 albums together to make your own music. Above I was just talking about playing songs, and that's hardly "DJing."

[charvelguy]

ahhh, yaaa, ok...
Take me away to Marseilles!

[tanpsi]

DJing is very hard. You have to mix speeds on 2 records, please the crowd by not playing songs they don't want to hear, or by ruining the mood, give some girls the eye, cut into new songs and out of the old one smoothly without notice, balance the EQ so the song transitions don't sound way different, etc. There's really a ton to do at once. I don't think I could ever handle it.

Things only get more complicated if you're DJing and blending 2 albums together to make your own music. Above I was just talking about playing songs, and that's hardly "DJing."

I was browsing a DJ book for some reason and it also recomended matching Keys of songs!!!! so yeah it's harder than it seems

[mjl927]

But, the way i would play it is like this:

-----U---D---U---D---U---D---U---D------U---D---U
E||--------------12--14--15--14--12--|--------------||
B||--12--13--15----------------------|--15--13--12--||
G||----------------------------------|--------------||
D||----------------------------------|--------------||
A||----------------------------------|--------------||
E||----------------------------------|--------------||

I'd play it like this too. For me, the best way to play just about any pattern is not necessarily to drill on licks like this over and over. Rather, construct a solo I'm actually going to play in a song and learn how to play it within the context of said song. I find that I get a) more satisfaction from pulling off a line that I came up with b) far less bored with practicing when I know the end result is going to actually be used somewhere.

I guess that is why I don't put too much stock in lesson books/dvd's etc. I wind up thumbing through the book or watching the dvd once and never using em again. I always go back to just coming up with my own stuff.

[TheMightyMaiden]

When you guys practice scales, do you re-pick the last note when you start playing back up.