*cough* theory...

[nateb]

Ok touchy subject here and I don't want to get into feel vs. theory shitstorm.

I never learned how to read music, I learned by patterns and intervals. I would like to know more about music composition without having to backup and learn to play keyboard/read music.

Can anyone tell me about a music theory book for someone in my position or am I just fucked?

-Nate

[thetroy]

There's a big difference between knowing how to read music and being able to sight-read. Just learning how to read music takes like 15 minutes and you pretty much need it if you want to learn any music theory.

[mjl927]

What exactly are you trying to find out? Modes? Chord relationships? Music composition encompasses a pretty wide spectrum.

I'm guessing you could find everything you wanted to know just by searching the internet.

[Shawn Lutz]

I look at as two different things theory and reading music and technique. I also don't think you have to be able to read music to understand it or to create it.

What works for me first off was learning the major scale. Then the chord formulas that are associated with it. After that it was goin on to the modes based off the major scale and more importantly their feeling they bring out of me Once I had the understanding of that I could get into different scales...harmonic minor, melodic minor, diminished, gypsy etc etc.

I did learn to read music but really found out when reading I was really just using my ear ansd memorizing the notes...so basicaly after reading through a piece I was just memoriing it by ear and cheating I figuered why bother...I can figure out just about anything by my ear and understanding of the theory of music...not reading it. I do wish I could just pick up any piece of music and play it instantly on the spot regarless of the type of music it was.

The other side of the coin to me is technique...if you dont have it all of the above doesnt matter

What works for one doesnt work for all so I'm not saying this is how you should apporach it, just that it worked effectively for me. I don't think lack of reading per se hurts my ability to create music at all. My main weakness is arrangemnent...I just want to throw everything and the kitchen sink into the piece and have a hard time saying enough is enough...thats why I enjyed working with writing parnter who can say dude...it's fine the way it is

[mhalsey]

I've thought about buying this but have yet to develop a theory on why I should.

http://www.amazon.com/Music-Theory-D.../dp/0764578383

[atomic charvel guy]

if you asked me to play a dimished aeolian scale in d minor i'd say come again? but if you told me to play something catchy in d, or d minor i can for the most part pull that off from the hours i spent picking notes over and over, using bad or sour notes to my advantage for next time. Vibrato, phrasing, with a little flash is what it ended up being , wether it was musically sound or correct in theory is another question. I always wanted my tunes to be tasty more than over the top wood chipping, but don't get me wrong, it didn't mean i didn't let loose with the speed factor.

[kmanick]

Thre are plenty of books out there that you can learn
theory from that have tab in them so reading music isn't
a "must have". It's a good 'should have" .

I've known how to read music since I was in 3rd grade
(cello)but I never practice sight reading so it takes me
forever to learn a piece just by reading it.
I never really got into theory until 2 years ago when I
started to learn Greg Howes newer stuff. It was so different
from playing the usual major/minor stuff that most
metal is composed from, suddenly I had to learn how to
jump back and forth from Lydian to Mixolydian to whole
tone and back to Mixolydian because I was playing over
dominant chords to sharp 5's to Maj13's to Am11 etc.
Shit you just don't have to deal with when you're playing Ratt or Dokken or Van Halen.

Most modern metal bands are using Phrygian Dominant to get "that sound" so
learn how to work that mode and you can learn a lot of stuff like Nevermore, Arch Enemy
Dream Theater etc.
Go for it it will really open your eyes.
Frank Gambales DVD's and Books are a great place to start.

[demeyes]

With a bit of a look on the internet you can find all that info for free. To learn some of the basics won't take you long at all. I'd agree to go with something that starts with the major scale and works upto note relationships and chords. Everything theory wise bases off the one scale pretty much.

[Spivonious]

Ok touchy subject here and I don't want to get into feel vs. theory shitstorm.

I never learned how to read music, I learned by patterns and intervals. I would like to know more about music composition without having to backup and learn to play keyboard/read music.

Can anyone tell me about a music theory book for someone in my position or am I just fucked?

-Nate

Define music composition.

Writing songs for you to play is easy; just notate them however you choose. Writing songs for others is easy too; just use tablature if it's a guitar. If you're looking to write something for a brass group, or a jazz band, or an orchestra, you're going to have to learn how to write standard notation. It's really not hard at all, and if you already know tablature, it's not too much of a jump.

If you want to learn theory but don't want to have to read music, then yes, you are fucked. Unless the book comes with a CD that plays all of the chords for you so you can hear how that Neopolitain progression sounds, or that French Augmented 6th. The ultimate goal is hearing the chords in your head and being able to identify them without writing it down.

Although, you say you learned intervals and patterns, so maybe you're not fucked. The books will say (hopefully) that, for example, a fully diminished 7th chord is built using minor 3rds. So a fully diminished C7 chord would be C-Eb-Gb-Bb. No this is not the same as C-D#-F#-A#, because that would be built on augmented 2nds.

I've realized that I'm starting to ramble, so I'll conclude with the first volume in the book that we used in my college theory class http://www.amazon.com/Music-Theory-P...927371&sr=8-32. It steps you through fairly slowly, but it definitely helps if you have basic keyboard skills, so your ear can develop at the same time. It also comes with a CD, but not all of the examples are on it, just a selection. You have to really dedicate yourself to it but you will come out a far better musician.

Composition starts with an idea in your head but gets transferred to paper through ear-training and knowledge of theory.

[tanpsi]

Yes, I would first learn to read music, pitch is easy, rhythm harder.

Then, like some people said, try to find something basic online, start with the major scale and how chords are created from the scale

You'll find 3 chords is really all you need!! haha!

Keep in mind that theory sort of describes the way music has been played traditionally, Blues, Metal and Jazz "break the rules" that you would find in traditional theory.

[Shawn Lutz]

Thre are plenty of books out there that you can learn
theory from that have tab in them so reading music isn't
a "must have". It's a good 'should have" .

I've known how to read music since I was in 3rd grade
(cello)but I never practice sight reading so it takes me
forever to learn a piece just by reading it.
I never really got into theory until 2 years ago when I
started to learn Greg Howes newer stuff. It was so different
from playing the usual major/minor stuff that most
metal is composed from, suddenly I had to learn how to
jump back and forth from Lydian to Mixolydian to whole
tone and back to Mixolydian because I was playing over
dominant chords to sharp 5's to Maj13's to Am11 etc.
Shit you just don't have to deal with when you're playing Ratt or Dokken or Van Halen.

Most modern metal bands are using Phrygian Dominant to get "that sound" so
learn how to work that mode and you can learn a lot of stuff like Nevermore, Arch Enemy
Dream Theater etc.
Go for it it will really open your eyes.
Frank Gambales DVD's and Books are a great place to start.

Right on Nick. Most metal music is minor in flavor so it is easy to grab on to and learn, just start with the relative minor or the minor modes and you can figure it out. Even easier for me is the bluse based pentatonic rock...its almost predictable.

I havent hear Greg's newer stuff but I think I know what your saying about him. Rock and metal hardly gets past the 3rd..once you start adding 5,7,9,13ths to the chords it can get difficult from a lead standpoint. If you really want to branch and challenge yourself thats the way to go. I did that in Jazz & Fusion stuff where you have to be on you toes. Rock and Metal you pretty much stick to one scale flavor for the whole thing so if your wailing away over it its easy to stay with it and not have to think much. Where as in Jazz you have to think of what scale you are using for EVERY chord in the progression...its not like you can go with the just mixolydian or one key and be done...every underlying chorf cna point to a different scale or even te same scale in a diferent key

[Bert]

Though I know a bit about music theory from formal piano lessons, I never really learned to apply it to guitar. I just picked up the "Guitar Fretboard Workbook" by Tagliarino and it's great. Starts with basic stuff like patterns & note finding, and then works up to more scales, modes, chords, arpeggios, triads, alterations, etc..... I'm digging it. Very practical and plenty of exercises to drill in the concepts. Check it out.

[blackendvampire]

It all depends on what you want to do with it. Learning what notes in a scale are modally major or minor overtop of a certain modal key is quite important in creating diatonically correct chord progressions. But look at slayer, their shit was mostly "What sounds cool" and alot of chromatics and whatnot, mostly relying on a big Eb chord in the backround to drone out a monotonous feel.
If you want to learn thrash type stuff though, you deffinately wouldnt need theory, just fast technique and tablature.
I have learned enough theory for what I do, you dont have to learn it all, just learn enough to satisfy your correctness. I play Powermetal so I need all my stuff to be diatonic, and I need my chord progressions to flow, But I also want to learn to add different flavors, so I have pickedup stuff such as Major 7th arpeggio/chords and learned how to fit those into diatonic music, as well as I think its call recipicle chord changes. Where you go Em/G/Gm/A#/A#m/C#/C#m/E/Em, Where it goes through a bunch of chords by mearly going Aeolian then Diatonic Ionian, then Inverting the Ionian to an Aeolian, then repeating the process. Alot of it has to do with experimenting and looking at logical theory, just making it make sense in your head, and wrapping the concepts up for good without questions. I would deffinately look at explanations of modes to learn the eccense of Diatonic Theory. Also you will be able to learn Diatonic Third Harmonies, A dominent figure when it comes to PowerMetal, Just listen to DragonForce for about 30 seconds. All the DuoGuitar leads are a Diatonic third apart, except somtimes one of the harmonies stays on a single note while the other dances over a couple, somehow they make it work.

[Soap]

Ok touchy subject here and I don't want to get into feel vs. theory shitstorm.

I never learned how to read music, I learned by patterns and intervals. I would like to know more about music composition without having to backup and learn to play keyboard/read music.

Can anyone tell me about a music theory book for someone in my position or am I just fucked?

-Nate

Do you want the long answer or the short answer?

Short answer:
Sell all your gear and guitar/s and quit playing, your screwed. joking

Long answer:
You should always resist anyone who wishes to control and dictate
as to what type of player you should or shouldn't be.
And NEVER EVER quit or give up playing regardless.

Books?
Why would you want to BUY any book or books when you have the internet and a printer? There's google, yahoo, youtube.com, forums, etc.

[OnlineStageGear]

The best way I can describe it is to know at least enough theory to be able to convey what you hear in your head. Sometimes just playing around with a mode or progression or something can spur something that can evolve into a song. Strictly having a song be difficult or very technical, just to be technical most times will sound like cow-dung to the non-musicians and they typically will make up 90+ % of your audience.

Matt