Playing while recording

[Fragle]

"I usually run through the song a few times and get a take that's mostly perfect, then either punch in the mistakes or paste them in. Pro Tools and other digtal recorders make it pretty easy to do stuff like this. The tough part is doubling the first track when doing rhythm guitars and harmony solos are a real pain in the ass. Chances are though, the more you practice the parts the easier they'll be to record correctly."

agreed.
guys, get real. of course you can go and record the whole song like a bazillion times until you finally got a perfect 5 minute or whatever track, but in the real world that's just way too time consuming. and time = money, especially if you're recording in an expensive pro studio.
and if you really dislike the copy/paste routine so much cause it's sooo mechanical sounding, well, i guess you haven't been listening to recent (metal) music for a while then. copy/paste is EVERYWHERE. i seriously doubt there is one single metal album since lets say 2000 that did not utilize copy/paste or any other mechanical sounding stuff like samples, triggers and whatnots during the recording process.

[jacksoncsplayer]

Cut and paste is a god send, I don't play in a band so when I write and record I will usually lay down the click track, then drums, then rythm guitar, which sometimes if it's a good track i'll duplicate, or i'll lay down another with a different amp setting, but mistakes for me are going to happen, I'm just not that good anymore. Cut and paste is quite easy once you do it, I also punch in and out to clean up stuff. I love computer recording.

Marc

[markD]

guys, get real. of course you can go and record the whole song like a bazillion times until you finally got a perfect 5 minute or whatever track, but in the real world that's just way too time consuming. and time = money, especially if you're recording in an expensive pro studio.
and if you really dislike the copy/paste routine so much cause it's sooo mechanical sounding, well, i guess you haven't been listening to recent (metal) music for a while then. copy/paste is EVERYWHERE. i seriously doubt there is one single metal album since lets say 2000 that did not utilize copy/paste or any other mechanical sounding stuff like samples, triggers and whatnots during the recording process.

i respect what you are saying, but i don't have to run through the parts a bazillion times. usually it is done within 4 takes, tops. granted i am NOT playing ultra complex death-metal, but still. and while i recognize cut and paste is everywhere on record, i WILL attribute that to why so many bands SUCK live these days. not too many bands i have seen can actually deliver it onstage anymore because their songs are pasted together.

old metal bands didn't need it and neither do modern ones. pre-production is an amazing concept. my band never spends much cash in the recording process, mostly in the mixing and mastering process....which is where the big bucks SHOULD be spent!!!

[Shawn Lutz]

"I usually run through the song a few times and get a take that's mostly perfect, then either punch in the mistakes or paste them in. Pro Tools and other digtal recorders make it pretty easy to do stuff like this. The tough part is doubling the first track when doing rhythm guitars and harmony solos are a real pain in the ass. Chances are though, the more you practice the parts the easier they'll be to record correctly."

agreed.
guys, get real. of course you can go and record the whole song like a bazillion times until you finally got a perfect 5 minute or whatever track, but in the real world that's just way too time consuming. and time = money, especially if you're recording in an expensive pro studio.
and if you really dislike the copy/paste routine so much cause it's sooo mechanical sounding, well, i guess you haven't been listening to recent (metal) music for a while then. copy/paste is EVERYWHERE. i seriously doubt there is one single metal album since lets say 2000 that did not utilize copy/paste or any other mechanical sounding stuff like samples, triggers and whatnots during the recording process.

there are more than one way to skin a cat an dno way is the perfect way for everyone.

I prefer no cutting and pasting but your time and money can be a moot point. The applications used, pro tools , sonar etc are fairly inexpensive so anyone and their brother can have high quality studio in their garages Why one would go into a studio and waste big $$$ for something that anyone who used a PC can do is beyone me Engineerring as far mic placement and live room acoustics ams someone who knows what they are doing are what your really payng wasting studio money on

[atomic charvel guy]

If you can't nail a tune, you're either out of practice or not practiced enough . Rythym playing has for the most part been overlooked quite often in the hard rock realm. EVH is overlooked for his , and winging it in time, takes time and effort. it's all a timing and groove thing, and you can also play out of time but have it still work as well if that makes any sense to anyone as long as your either filling up a space with something and or coming back in on the next beat or part on time. Time keeping is the most important things of all. Tommy Lee was a great time keeper as well. I'm sure having a brother like Alex to grow with made a huge difference in eVH's rythym playing, because he is a monster at it.

[Endrik]

pretty much everything is cut and paste these days... pro tools is great technology but a lot of the shit is so irritating to my ears.
pro tools guarantees that the whole band sounds really tight... but if that's not your goal then you are fucked.

if you listen to old Zeppelin records.... they didn't use metronomes and played the whole tune in at one time... if fucked up.... tried again.
the reason their records still sound so fresh is because they are very lively sounding.
Bonham and JPJ purpously played behind the beat... it's an oldschool technique from jazz and soul musicians to drag the tempo and make the grooves sound big.
You can't mathematically calculate how you play behind the beat.... it's a feel thing and no computer can make you that feel.... not right now anyway

Some played ahead of the beat... wether the horns or the rhythm section in Dixieland jazz recordings... it's to create tension... also can't mathematically calculate how you play it.

some natural mistakes give you some cool vibe... in some Beatles tunes you can hear how the kick drum pedal is squeaking
but they allways sounded so great... if you listen to let's say a song "Taxman"... it pretty much destroys all the today's hard rock and heavy metal recordings.. SOUND WISE!!!

Eddie Van Halen leaved in a lot of mistakes too... but they actually make it sound cooler... same with the Rolling Stones.

It's the truth that a lot of the players can't pull of their shit live... studio magic doesn't make one a great player.
All the great session musicians were great live players first before they became hired guns for the studios.

But recording costs a lot of money so no one wants to spend to make a record sound really spetacular (unless it's a band like Metallica or AC/DC) but they just make it sound good or OK because who the fuck cares right...

I think you really have to practice your ass off if you want to make a good sounding record but that's just my point of view.

[markD]

i agree. we used to overdub everything and build the songs up from the drums. these days, we record the bas and drums live and i overdub my guitar (no multi-tracking, just a single track) live as well (meaning the lead and everything is played live). all the vocals are added later. again, no multi-layer. i make the singer pull off her vocal in a complete pass. no overdubs or punching. sometimes it takes a while with her, and there are SMALL mistakes, but we go for the feel, vibe and attitude over the sterility or modern productions.

[atomic charvel guy]

Robotically recorded to the milli-nano second comes out sounding like a robot. listen to Exile on Main Street. Keith used to say i'm going upstairs for a piss, and come down a day and a half later all juiced up, and lay down , write and record magic, unforgettable tunes. They were uncanny to say the least.

[Endrik]

i agree. we used to overdub everything and build the songs up from the drums. these days, we record the bas and drums live and i overdub my guitar (no multi-tracking, just a single track) live as well (meaning the lead and everything is played live). all the vocals are added later. again, no multi-layer. i make the singer pull off her vocal in a complete pass. no overdubs or punching. sometimes it takes a while with her, and there are SMALL mistakes, but we go for the feel, vibe and attitude over the sterility or modern productions.

some great producers who aren't castrated yet and don't care about spending shit loads of cash in the studios demand the band to play/record together... not separately... very cool move imo.... specially when it comes to rhythm section.... gotta capture the chemistry and vibe they are having.

there's nothing worse than a singer who is out of pitch all the time... but when the singer is cool and can maneuver and do all kinds of tricks then the outcome can be fucking great.. even if it takes time... that's why I love Doug Pinnick... his vocals aren't perfected like all those auto-tuner fiend bubblegum hacks... he sounds real and unique... there are some mistakes... but they could have been done with purpose... I think it sounds great when the voice does a lot interesting things wich theoretically could be wrong... it's like when Jeff Beck plays guitar... there's a lot of weird shit happening but it's all magical.

even the great singers who have amazing abilities seek for a good vibe rather than ultimate perfection... I love how David Coverdale purpously leaved in his breathing voices on Whitesnake '87 record.... it's one of the coolest things I've ever heard... it cave so much to the tunes... I can't even imagine them without the breathing sounds.

[Endrik]

It wasn't a long time ago when I was all about doing 8 overdubs for a single guitar part and quad-tracking all of them.

Everyone is doing it and it's getting fucking booring.
I'd take one track guitar Van Halen 1 over that stuff anyday.
Overdubs still are great for certain parts but not doing the whole fucking record that way.
There's a lot more to learn from Jimmy Page... who has hard riffing guitar on one side, acoustic on the other and then very panoramically mixed all those mandolin, 12-string etc. parts all over the place.
Or stuff that's on Aerosmith or Guns'N'Roses records... they have totally different guitar parts panned on each channel... they don't sound anything alike but when mixed together it sounds fucking badass.

[wilkinsi]

I'll keep doing re-runs when I make mistakes. Editing can sometimes make it sound worse, i.e: the edit sounds obvious. Using the scrub mode on multitracks isn't as accurate as people think.

[skorb]

I'll find out this coming Sunday when my cover band goes into the studio to record a demo to shop ourselves around for gigs. I play well under pressure so I'm not anticipating any problems.

[Fragle]

well, i guess if you all are talking about rock music rather than metal i'll have to agree with you. nothing worse than a sterile rock'n'roll production.

[Shawn Lutz]

I prefer raw sounding stuff. Nothing makes metal or hard rock music unappealing to me than a highly polished album. I cannot stand perfection in something as simpliostic as rock or metal music. Time drifts are auto corrected, vocals are pitch corrected, a bazillion cloned tracks layered up and not one of them live

Even before I played guitar when I was growing up I was attracted to live albums, Frampton, Foghat, Nugent, REO Speedwagon etc. I htink that is why in a lot of hteplayers I like I really only get into their first releases where the band is hungry and recording on a limited budget. They then go platinum and then have huge budgets and put out polished crap...

[atomic charvel guy]

So you are opposed to that high fidelity , high tech tape recorder in the middle of the studio room that somehow picked everything up that you hosted for me on your site?-lol I feel the same way Shawn, let it rip.