Playing while recording

[gregc]

I have the opposite problem! Since I discovered Logic Pro's 'audio quantize' feature, I can nail very tricky staccato rhythm parts bang on time. Trying to actually play the same part live is a problem...

BTW, bit off topic, but Logic Pro absolutely rocks, the Guitar Amp Pro thing actually does a pretty good (IMHO) impression of a Marshall silver jubilee, which - being a fan of 80s metal - I love.

[markD]

i have never understood the concept of cutting and pasting your tracks together. i guess i am old school. i play ALL my rhythm tracks in a single pass. if i DO mess up, i re-record the whole song. i play all my leads in one pass too. if i mess up, i redo it. i am always stunned when i go to do session work and these guys are pasting songs together. they practically fall out of there seats when i DEMAND to actually play the WHOLE song through. i know that it is the norm these days, but i think it is WEAK. what happened to actually being a GOOD solid player?

[delt]

Most of the time i don't like to copy+paste the same riff because i don't want it to sound -exactly- the same. I guess the lack of slightly different accentuations etc. give away the fact that it's copypasta.

Otoh, like anyone would ever notice.. i guess i'm just being a perfectionist

[Cygnus X1]

Most of the time i don't like to copy+paste the same riff because i don't want it to sound -exactly- the same. I guess the lack of slightly different accentuations etc. give away the fact that it's copypasta.

Otoh, like anyone would ever notice.. i guess i'm just being a perfectionist

I've tried to the point of frustration/giving up, asking what am I doing this for...it's a hell of lot more fun just jamming. The copy/paste does sound machinelike to my ear. But I can get away with doing an entire stretch, a bit of copy, then going on with another, so it sounds different throughout the song. It's the drums that kick my butt. I use an Ensoniq SD-1/32, have some great drum sounds...but trying to make it sound good just kills me. I always mess up, and I hate a quantized drum track.

[thetroy]

I don't know how to program drums and hope I never will, though chances are I'll learn in the next few years sometime.

I'd really rather just play with people all of the time and if some of it gets recorded that's cool, otherwise I don't care. I'm not out to get a record contract or anything just to have fun and sound good. Problem is finding people to play with is easier said than done when you're a guitarist

[Newc]

i have never understood the concept of cutting and pasting your tracks together. i guess i am old school. i play ALL my rhythm tracks in a single pass. if i DO mess up, i re-record the whole song. i play all my leads in one pass too. if i mess up, i redo it. i am always stunned when i go to do session work and these guys are pasting songs together. they practically fall out of there seats when i DEMAND to actually play the WHOLE song through. i know that it is the norm these days, but i think it is WEAK. what happened to actually being a GOOD solid player?

Agreed. My #1 rule is if you cannot play the song all the way through as a band and record it straight to 2 tracks (barring overdubs such as 2-guitar harmonies in a one-guitar band, etc), then you shouldn't be in a studio.

Obviously this doesn't work with solo acts (guitarist with drum module, one man shows, etc), and it's ok for a band to hammer out ideas, but once you've got the song written, you should be able to record on the run as a full band.

My old band always wanted to write songs in a real studio, and I kept telling them that it was way too expensive to do that. I told them we should write the songs at home, nail them as a unit, then lay down the tracks in a studio all at once with everything mic'd individually. Yeah you get some bleedover especially on the drums, but you get a live sound over a studio sound.

To prove they weren't ready for writing in a studio setting, I took my 12-track to rehearsal and we tried to finalize some of the fairly loose jams and nearly-complete songs we had already written - how does it start, what are the lyrics, how long are the verses, where are the bridges, what changes and where, how do we come back from those changes, etc etc.

By the end of one month we had three songs that were complete, and I had to do the bass and all guitars on them because the bassist couldn't do it right (guitar-bass), and the singer/guitarist had the sloppiest timing.

Another month went by and I did what I could to dress them up by cutting and pasting, but nothing short of total retakes would save them.

Finally after 6 months of listening to them bellyache about how much time it was taking I put it all on CD and let them have it. I pointed out the problems - the bassist was playing too many notes in one as if he was playing guitar, yet on others where the bass lines should have provided a flow, he was doing root/5th Country bass. The drummer was stuck in the same hi-hat pattern just at various speeds, when I was playing him examples from an SR16 preset of how I thought the hi-hat should bounce rather than sound like a clock ticking.

I pointed out to the singer where his rhythm was off and cancelling out bass and kick notes, as well as my rhythm. I then showed him where and why his vocal "outside stylings" for one song didn't fit, and how I was able to pull them back into harmony through an interesting use of a underlying string section (I amazed myself with that one - it completely cancelled out a key shift he injected and pulled him in key).

Of course, everything was my fault in the end, and we split.

Last I heard they blew $5K in the studio and still don't have a CD because it's still being mastered (Frankensteined).

[delt]

The copy/paste does sound machinelike to my ear.

Well, of course if you take a short segment and loop it over and over you'll end up with a perfect backing for a rap album... but that's not the same as "re-using" for ex. the same cut of a riff in 2 or 3 different places on the track.

And i also agree that you -should- be able to play the whole track in a single pass, excluding overdubs, switching gear/presets, post-recording effects, etcetc.


..... and about drums. Most people underestimate, or completely forget the importance of MULTISAMPLING. Using just one, same and only snare sample for example, even at different volumes, will sound mechanical and unnatural because in real life, no drummer will ever hit the snare twice in a row with -exactly- the same strength, at the same spot, with the stick at the same angle, etcetcetc...... that's why you need to randomize between several "similar" samples of each piece (snares, bassdrums, hihats, ....) to get a decent sounding drum track.

[Robert Burns]

You guys are crazy! Just make all your songs use only 4 chords!
That way its mundane... simple..and lacks any remote musical
idea's or originality! I never make mistakes doing I / IV/V !! :ROTF:

[Shawn Lutz]

I don't cut and paste and piece stuff together. I personally play the entire song or piece all the way through and get it the best I possibly can get it. sometimes its the 1st or 2nd take...sometimes it takes forever. if I'm having a forever day I just shitcan the idea of recording for that day

I find playing the whole thing thru helps with flow and continuity. Once the initial track is done I can move on to embellishments, double or triple track, different chord inversions to layer it up. its fiunny when I get to the solos I also play the entire song just as I would if I were playing it live. Once I get a solo I like, I work on doubling it or tripling it

[jtr]

Practice! That the only thing that will help and you must have very good meter. Being sloppy won't make it in the Studio. It strarts with the Drummer or Rhythm section be in meter and have a groove or play in the pocket. If you can't play a song all the way through without a glaring mistake practice if your meter is off ( some people can't count 1-4 in the same interval try a metronome) then it's a sign of a major problem. There a reason why back in the day studio musician where used on every major artist recording and still are for that matter.

[horns666]

I'm so "old school" when it comes to this I guess. I used a 80's tascam porta studio 4 track cassette recorder. I laid down all my guitar parts to a metronome that swings back and forth...That took me all day. Then my drummer couldn't play along to that click to save his life..I wanted to choke' em. Everything I posted is LIVE with the drummer in my basement on a "cassette tape" that was tranfered onto a disc to mp3...Robert Johnson's recordings were more advanced. Any solos are on the fly, I wing it and hope for the best.. If I made a mistake I had to start from the beginning..yeesh...they're pre-production song ideas

I have 8 songs I need to lay down in a real studio...with a click, triggers, cut and paste and all the whatnots..whenever that'll be..

[thetroy]

I don't have any problems playing in time - just seems like a finger a note poorly once or twice per 4 minutes no matter what. I guess I could just pull a Slayer and make my songs 2 minutes long so I don't fuck up

[markD]

nah, just relax and practice. i find when i really rehearse the material i have no problem in the studio. when i go in cold, it takes a few takes. i think the biggest obstacle for you to conquer is your "mistakes don't matter live" attitude. if you can NAIL the song live, you can do it in the studio. if you flub it onstage, you'll flub it in the studio.

also, it'll come easier with experience!!!

[gregc]

At the risk of sticking my head above the parapet ;-)

Because I'm basically not very good, and I need all the practice time I can get just to be able to play at a basic level, and to write stuff, I find it tough to nail the tricky stuff bang on time.

That matters on a recording, so although I would generally play the whole song 'live' I can (and do) use Logic's audio quantize to subtly correct timing here and there once I've got a take that is otherwise good.

It really *doesn't* matter if its perfect or not live, it's more important that the 'vibe' of the song is right, and everyone has a good time.

I'm sure a lot of people (probably a lot of people here) would really enjoy seeing Vai or whoever live, nailing complex stuff and being technically brilliant, but personally I find that pretty dull. I'd rather see Motley Crue. YMMV!

[mattsmusiccenter]

I usually run through the song a few times and get a take that's mostly perfect, then either punch in the mistakes or paste them in. Pro Tools and other digtal recorders make it pretty easy to do stuff like this. The tough part is doubling the first track when doing rhythm guitars and harmony solos are a real pain in the ass. Chances are though, the more you practice the parts the easier they'll be to record correctly.