Playing while recording

[Shawn Lutz]

if the ghetto blaster in the middle of the room captures the magic then its all good Tommy

[Fragle]

"I cannot stand perfection in something as simpliostic as rock or metal music" while i couldn't imagine something like accept's restless and wild with a modern day polished production, i certainly couldn't imagine a modern metal record with a production as raw as e.g. accept's either. in fact, a bad production (and in my book that's what once again e.g. the accept stuff is like, badly produced by today's standards, pretty good by the time it was recorded) really stops me from LOVING a record. take kataklysm - serenity in fire as an example. there are some *really* kickass songs on that album, but the production (while by no means bad) is nothing to drool all over, and therefore it doesn't kick my ass as much as it's successor in the arms of devastation. same thing goes for amon amarth. their latest (with oden on our side) kicks serious ass all the way through (including those typical tremolo picked harmony parts), whereas it's predecessor is boring as hell to me, even in those very same tremolo passages. that's not because the music is any worse, it's because the production just flat out sucks. what i'm saying is, with the older, more simplistic stuff as you call it i think a raw production sometimes fits well (kill em all anyone?), but in my opinion modern metal is way beyond simplistic and therefore shouldn't be crippled with a raw production tailored to balls to the wall (no accept pun intended) hard rock/early metal music. seriously, are you really trying to say that guys like andy sneap, neil kernon, colin richardson and the likes would be better off making their albums sound vintage? edit: sorry for the lack of paragraphs, for some reason it's not working right now?!

[markD]

not at all. everything has its place. i don't consider my bands recording vintage. nor would i consider them overly produced. i LOVE the sounds that a lot of bands get, and even prefer to use triggers in the studio over micing a drum kit. it is all about the quality. my current drummer REFUSES to trigger so our recordings suffer a bit....incredible amounts of cymbal bleed make it hard to have "modern" sounding recording, so the drums aren't as up front in the mix as i like. still sounds good, just different.

[Shawn Lutz]

are you really trying to say that guys like andy sneap, neil kernon, colin richardson and the likes would be better off making their albums sound vintage? edit: sorry for the lack of paragraphs, for some reason it's not working right now?!

all I'm saying is that the original vibe of a song can get lost in the production if one spends a year or two in the mixing and polishing stages. It has nothing to do with vintage or modern recording techniques.

I don't do modern metal and don't know the dudes you listed from what I can tell nothing there is really all that advanced in terms of guitar playing and/or recording with exception of cloning tracks and cut and paste edits.

[Endrik]

it all depends what the goal of the production is

sometimes you can get your shit done quickly... sometimes it takes forever.... even if you want some specific "raw" sound.

long production process doesn't necessary mean that the album is going to be over produced.... over produced and well produced are two different things.

I like good production qualities... good production means it's unique.. not sterile... brings the best out of the band... and sounds real and live

over producing sucks out the life of the music... some are wasting too much time on polishing things... instead they can spend the time to experiment and make up something cool

a lot of quickly made products sounds booring because they didn't put enough time into finding the specific sounds wich would have been right for their music... instead used the same settings and shit wich all the others before them did

[Shawn Lutz]

ultimately its about the music not the production
here's a good example...
http://youtube.com/watch?v=nPGA3vjML...related&search=

[Glave]

Here's another good example.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=FCojcP_6AkI&mode=related&search=

This I feel is the biggest problem with guitarists, the lack of rhythm work. Everyone wants to play a thousand notes a second, but tell them to drop a basic groove down, they fail miserably. This really comes out in recording. Missed or flubbed notes happen and usually most people don't notice, but a bad sense of rhythm will make the most tone-deaf listener cringe. I don't mean perfect timing but having a feel for the rhythm of the song you're playing. Hell, if you put most SRV or Zeppelin tunes through a quantizer, the computer would probably explode. But, everyone is together and they all have the feel that is needed. It's hard to explain, but you know it when you hear it.

[diablomozart]

hmmm...interesting topic...believe it or not this is one of those things that justcomes with time, patience and practice...the more you actually do it the less you'll worry about it...i have had people tell me i am one of the fastest people they have ever seen record but it's because i dont sweat it...just record it...if you make a mistake go back and re-record it...i have never been one to subscribe to the protool cut and paste method...if you wrote it you should be able to play it consistently...if not...keep practicing it until you can...makes you a better player in the long run...but remember there's always gonna be something you hear in your head and cant play...thats what shows you that you still have goals...d.m.

[markD]

totally!! i agree. hahaha, anymore in large studios i can show up with a POD (which i do if it session work for somebody else) or my amp and a cab (which is usually a 1x12 with an EVM speaker) for my band, set up (i already know my cabs "sweet spot") and bang out my tracks in less than an hour. practicing is important. the ONLY time i have issue is when a producer wants me to play a lead on somebody's track and i didn't get the backing track in time...then i sit and work it out. but i don't care because it is on somebody elses cash, AND i am getting paid for it!!! hahaha. when it is MY cash, i am ALL about the business.

[delt]

Nothing makes metal or hard rock music unappealing to me than a highly polished album.

*cough*rhapsody*cough* bah, they've done some good tunes, i'm just not into the whole epic "dungeons&dragons metal" theme. But i see what you mean by highly polished. It just sounds too much like some huge budget hollywood production.

[thetroy]

I think the huge hollywood sound is kickass

[Endrik]

*cough*rhapsody*cough* bah, they've done some good tunes, i'm just not into the whole epic "dungeons&dragons metal" theme. But i see what you mean by highly polished. It just sounds too much like some huge budget hollywood production.

there isn't even a slightest similarity between euro-metal (like rhapsody) and hi-end hollywood production... actually they are the total opposite of each other.

[delt]

Another point is that recording each passage/riff individually gives you more freedom to rearrange the mix without having to recut everything.

[cdwillis]

Have a shot or two before you record and try to loosen up.

[JacksonDean]

i have never understood the concept of cutting and pasting your tracks together. i guess i am old school. i play ALL my rhythm tracks in a single pass. if i DO mess up, i re-record the whole song. i play all my leads in one pass too. if i mess up, i redo it. i am always stunned when i go to do session work and these guys are pasting songs together. they practically fall out of there seats when i DEMAND to actually play the WHOLE song through. i know that it is the norm these days, but i think it is WEAK. what happened to actually being a GOOD solid player?

I try this too; it's very difficult for me. I get that "red light syndrome" someone mentioned, I think.

So far, all I've really managed to use my recording software for is a scratch pad.