Philosophical question.. "Tone is in your fingers"

[VitaminG]

Re: Philosophical question.. "Tone is in your fingers"

Originally posted by nor:
And you could trade it for a 79 Camaro - straight across!! [img]graemlins/headbang.gif[/img]

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Y'know, that's not a bad idea. I've made some of my best music on a car stereo. I certainly sound better playing CDs than I do playing guitar [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[nor]

Re: Philosophical question.. &quot;Tone is in your fingers&quot;

so can anyone tell me what sort of big-ass spider Kirk used to get his tone on Justice?

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Selloutus Gratuitous
..more commonly referred to as the 'Drunken Wah-Wah'.

In nature, Selloutus Gratuitous is a very aggressive predator with a keen survival instinct. They lure in their prey by displaying a disk that appears to be something tasty, but is in fact the regurgitated remains from the last meal the spider had.

Selloutus Gratuitous is not at the top of the food chain, however. Notable predators; Napsterus Copyrightus and Gnutellas Pirateus.

In yer amp, frying a Selloutus Gratuitous between the transformer and the primary fuse can really thicken up your tone. Replacing power tubes with Selloutus Gratuitous has been reported to produce 2-3 seconds of pure tone, followed by completely noise-free operation.

WARNING: Replacing any tube with a spider may void your amps' warranty. Be clear on the manufaturers' policy concerning these type of modifications.

[ December 31, 2002, 03:13 AM: Message edited by: nor ]

[RacerX]

Re: Philosophical question.. &quot;Tone is in your fingers&quot;

Originally posted by nor:
string guage and age,

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">gauge

[img]graemlins/poke.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/tongue.gif[/img]

[Newc]

Re: Philosophical question.. &quot;Tone is in your fingers&quot;

Why do people always cite the extreme opposite argument of "well, let's run this professional artist who normally uses a professional guitar and amp setup through an ultra-beginner setup and beginner guitar and see how he sounds"?
Because you know he'll sound the same if you move him from a Les Paul and Marshall to a Hamer V and SLO100 - of course, that's dependant on how that particular artist sets the EQ, and if you stipulate that the artist couldn't be allowed to adjust the EQ, chances are he's not going to play more than a "lemme see how this sounds" chord or riff.

Ok, two people playing the exact same guitar through the exact same amp WILL sound different, period, because it is mostly determined by the individual player's hands. Case in perfect point: Stevie Ray and Jimmie Vaughan on 'Family Style'. There's one song where they are both using the same guitar - one plays it for a little and then the other one *takes the guitar from the other* and plays their part. They aren't overdubbing their parts and using their personal favorite Number 1's, they are sitting down next to each other in the studio with the tape rolling and passing the actual guitar itself back and forth.
Each one has his own distinct tone. Jimmie doesn't sound like Stevie Ray, and Stevie Ray doesn't sound like Jimmie, but they are both using the exact same amp and guitar. There's no channel switching or other EQ trickery going on, it's just them.

While a Marshall and a Mesa obviously have two similar but different sounds, the person playing them still retains their individual sound when they are allowed to adjust their settings the way they want them.
Years ago in a Guitar World interview with Judas Priest, Glenn and KK both said they didn't know what EQ and effects the studio engineers used when they were recording their albums, and that all they did was set their amps how they like them and let the engineers do the mixing and such.
When they switched from the Marshalls they used on Defenders to whatever they used on Painkiller, it still sounded like Glenn and KK, even though certain tonal aspects (i.e. gain) were noticeably different than they had been before.

To ask "How do I get (fill_in_the_blank)'s tone?" literally means "how can I set my amp/pedals/rack unit to replicate that person's sound as heard on a particular recording", and it's impossible to answer simply. It's a foolish question, but it's asked out of pure lack of knowledge about studio engineering and sound production, however, it's also a challenge for everyone to use their equipment to sound like someone else using different equipment.

However, when someone asks how to get someone's sound, they usually mean how do I get the same distortion saturation, compression level, chorus depth and rate, flange sweep, delay timing, reverb depth, lows, mids, and highs and wah range.
I've never heard anyone fuss about not sounding exactly like Eric Johnson, even though they nail the notes and the effect characteristics (gain/chorus/reverb) of the song.

Newc

[Gazman]

Re: Philosophical question.. &quot;Tone is in your fingers&quot;

[img]graemlins/notworthy.gif[/img]

Exactly

Gareth [img]graemlins/band.gif[/img]

[VitaminG]

Re: Philosophical question.. &quot;Tone is in your fingers&quot;

at the risk of sounding like Andrea & Ryann:

Yay Newc! [img]graemlins/notworthy.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/toast.gif[/img]

[Alexi7]

Re: Philosophical question.. &quot;Tone is in your fingers&quot;

Most of that has been covered already....Word, you were using the Steve Vai argument...Ok, tell me this, does kill 'em all sound the same as Puppets? Ahhhh, 'jaymz is playing it, so it must sound the same'.....please.....

"Ok, two people playing the exact same guitar through the exact same amp WILL sound different, period, because it is mostly determined by the individual player's hands." Amen, that's called, note articulation (for the tenth time), and its completely different to saying that one person will have a fatter tone, or more crunch than the other, simply because they play differently...Its absurd to think that, i mean, why not just say that Clapton can make fakn distortion on an acoustic guitar, its the same principle.
Cheers

[VitaminG]

Re: Philosophical question.. &quot;Tone is in your fingers&quot;

isn't note articulation a contributing factor in a person's tone? Check out nor's excellent post earlier in this thread. Yes, someone can have more crunch or a fatter sounder than someone else playing on exactly the same gear. I get a heavier, crunchier sound playing through my gear than my friend does, who has a much lighter touch. I'm pretty heavy handed and that definitely gives me more crunch than my friend, who is used to delicately plinking away at his acoustic and is a little more timid and self conscious when I force him to play through my amp. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

And once again you are trying to illustrate your point by using extremes: Clapton getting distortion on an acoustic? Now you're just being ridiculous. Did you even read Newc's post?

[skidd]

Re: Philosophical question.. &quot;Tone is in your fingers&quot;

Yes but on the 1st note you know damm well its Metallica. Take EVH on beat it, sounds like Ed to me. Listen to Randy on old Quiet Riot stuff,same thing. Bottom line if you can't play on a ****ty rig, you STILL can't play.

[Chuckracer]

Re: Philosophical question.. &quot;Tone is in your fingers&quot;

Chuckracer on tone:

Tone is not something you buy, its something you earn.

From years and years of honing your playing skills in every facet to playing everything under the sun and therefore knowing what gear will get you to your sound. Experience=Knowledge=Tone.

[diablomozart]

Re: Philosophical question.. &quot;Tone is in your fingers&quot;

ummm...i've been playing and handed my guitar to another player and he really didn't sound like me...equipment IS important but let's not overlook the picking hand...i literally beat the hell out of the strings when i'm playing rhythm and it does make a difference...d.m.

[Basswood]

Re: Philosophical question.. &quot;Tone is in your fingers&quot;

I just started playing again after around a 10 year layoff. After I received my new DKMGT and started working these stale fingers I almost put the guitar back in the case and puked. Well here I am a month later and after redeveloping my calluses and practicing 2 to 3 hours a day I have something worth listening to. I agree that it is a combination of all things that give us our own unique sound. It really doesnt matter what I play through or on that much though. I listen to some of my old stuff on tape with my old les paul through a Marshall and listen to myself now with the Jackson through a Peavy and not much has changed. It still sounds like me. Good gear to start with is always a plus and I am fortunate that I never had to suffer with cheap equipment.

[Alexi7]

Re: Philosophical question.. &quot;Tone is in your fingers&quot;

Yeah vitamin G, that's stating the obvious, that's why that hasnt been discussed, cause a two year old could work that out....And about the clapton thing, i was using this magical thing called 'sarcasm', you might have heard of it.

LOL!!! Jesus, how stupid was that..No **** ill know its metallica, cause they'll be playing a metallica tune..Now you've lost all sense of reasoning, you've lost your argument...

This whole thing has been processed to the ****house, how about we go back to the original topic...which revolved around the fact that, no matter what kind of set up you have, you'll always sound the same...Then the argument was put forth that Steve Vai, and Satch sounded the same playing some ****ty amps...Well to that, i put my argument fourth, why doesnt Kill em All sound anything like Justice, after all, it IS james playing...pfft, lets think a little here
Cheers

[skidd]

Re: Philosophical question.. &quot;Tone is in your fingers&quot;

The only one who has lost all sense of reasoning is you, pure and simple. The overall "scooped" tone of those guys is the same, the level of production is better, Kirk is on the damm wah to much , but still the same. This is not an aurgurment, it is a question. There is no RIGHT and WRONG. I'm very happy with my tone and my playing, it sounds to me like you haven't found "your" tone yet.When you do, this will make more sense. That was not a flame by the way.

[VitaminG]

Re: Philosophical question.. &quot;Tone is in your fingers&quot;

Originally posted by Alexi7:
No **** ill know its metallica, cause they'll be playing a metallica tune..Now you've lost all sense of reasoning, you've lost your argument...

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">So should Metallica play, say, a cover tune, maybe an old Queen song for example, you wouldn't recognise it? Because despite the fact that it's James & Kirk playing, it's not a Metallica tune. They've done it in the past, you may have heard about it. How ever do you cope when Metallica releases a new album? You must spend days wondering who the hell is playing, until you are finally familiar enough with the songs and can recognise them as "metallica tunes". If you're lucky, they used the same amps/guitars/mixing board/producer/studio as last time, and you might recognise their "tone" [img]graemlins/eyes.gif[/img]

You write off Newc's post regarding the Vaughan brothers sounding different through exactly the same set up as being totally due to note articulation, which apparently is completely unrelated to "tone". Although when it's suggested that it is just one of the many components that determines a person's tone, that is a concept that even a 2 year old can work out and doesn't bear discussion. So is it, or isn't it?

What's funnier though is that the more sanctimonious you become and the more self-assured you try to appear, the more your sentence structure and any vague semblance of logic seems to leave you.