Basic Solo Theory

[gemini8026]

Hi all.


Id like a little help. In the past I was always doing my soloing by piecing stuff together slowly and making riffs like that.

But id like to speed up the process and learn a little about what scales to use where. For example, if I am using a basic power chord. Lets say im doing a basic power chord in G, what scale would I use over that. I have all the references for where on the neck the notes and scales are, im just not sure how to synch them to sound good.

Thanks for any tips/advice/references!

[lerxstcat]

Re: Basic Solo Theory

Well, it depends on the chord progression, whether it's major or minor in nature. If you're playing a root/5th
power chord "in G" assume you mean you're playing the G chord itself. You can usually use the G pentatonic minor safely over indeterminate r/5 power chords, but if the entire progression follows a G major or minor pattern, you should use whatever scale fits the pattern of the whole progression. Let's say you're playing a simple Gm, F C progression. I might use a G minor scale
with some repetition of like play G-Bb-A-Bb over the Gm, F-Bb-A-Bb over the F, E-Bb-A,Bb over the C, then run down the minor scale in quad figures starting
from the same Bb, using the pivot of those 2 Bb and A notes as a pedal point to tie the solo together while the chords move. That's just one idea of thousands, but you need to look at the whole chord progression to decide what scale to use.
Also, remember that mixing G pentatonic and G minor works really well, and the positions are basically the same, and that the relative major to G minor is that Bb I beat into the ground above, so you can run a Bb Major scale over a G minor chord and it will work.

I hope that helps a little. It's easier to do than to explain.

Rich

[gemini8026]

Re: Basic Solo Theory

lol. The old if it sounds good, it is good way of being.

I think im better off getting a book regarding basic theory, because what Lexstrat just typed out, was totally greek to me!

Ill be back in a lil while once Ive learned some technical mumjo jumbo!

[Boxcar Willie 84]

Re: Basic Solo Theory

In my mind, the only rule to soloing is that there are no rules...I find it exciting when a player throws the rulebook out the window and tried to play something different and interesting rather than notes fit such and such a scale. Scales and theory are good to know and use at some points, but when you do something totally fresh sometimes it does the trick even better, yknow?

[lerxstcat]

Re: Basic Solo Theory

You have a point in that a lot of rock breaks rules of musical conduct in the traditional sense. I also think, though,
that if you know how things are SUPPOSED to go together, you can break the rules in a more effective way, as opposed to using trial and error to find what sounds
cool and what sounds like crap.

When you listen to iconoclastic players who play wild and cool sounding stuff, a
knowledge of theory will still show you the pattern behind the seemingly random
guitar wailing that people dig. So you should know the rulebook before you throw
it away. I don't mean really advanced stuff; the extent of what a first-semester theory class teaches is enough for most rock, and you can learn the rest on your own. It just helps you see the mathematical forms of music so you can plot your course. You can do that by ear and eye without knowing the theory, in rock, but even a little theory
helps a lot to see the patterns and tell
what will fit and what wil not.

I totally agree that you don't want to stifle your creativity because something
you come up with sounds cool, but doesn't seem to make sense theory-wise. If it works and sounds cool, forget the rulebook. The rulebook just helps you bridge the gap between desperation and inspiration.

Great call on chromatics too, Justin! The best thing for speed blurs and indeterminate voicing, and the best for finger exercises! I need to exercise those a lot more. I need to listen to some Steve Morse and get real humble!

[jjw]

Re: Basic Solo Theory

Depends on the comp but in theory you could use the cromatic scale mate.There are no real wrong notes,only ones that sound bad if you rest on them for too long.Tension and resolve in licks/lines is cool.
there are too many scales to choose from from diatonic major scales/harmonic min/melodic min/and countles other (worldy region)scales..so use your ears and play whay you hear [img]graemlins/headbang.gif[/img]

[gemini8026]

Re: Basic Solo Theory

I read an interesting interview with Sammy Hagar. He says he just soloed by knowing what note he wanted to start and end on.


In that regard, in makes things a little easier. Im aware of how to solo over a chord, but it's the progressions where things become complicated, and learning the "math" behind it all might be needed without sounding like wanking or mindless not choices.

In one regard, its a creative issue, but like LEx pointed out, the creativity needs a little bit of knowledge to be fully explited.

Ive already leanred quite a few things today off reading web pages. I have spent to much time doing excersizes WITHOUTH thinking about what notes I am playing and leanring no notes on the neck.

Part of the maturing musicians progress I spose [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[diablomozart]

Re: Basic Solo Theory

basic (very basic) solo theory...a solo should...
a) have a great intro to it to catch the listener's ear
b) build to some sort of climax towards the end
c) always try and say something with your soloing ...(a lot easier said than done)
d) when all else fails...rip off the vocal melody and start modifying it...lol
...d.m.

couple of other things...
e) the solo should get you excited first...chances are, if it doesn't move you, it won't move anyone...
f) try and make the solo a reflection of whatever basic emotion you have in the song...ie:132nd notes (while cool) sound really strange over a slow love song...you get the idea...lol

[ September 09, 2003, 02:32 PM: Message edited by: diablomozart ]

[Alexi7]

Re: Basic Solo Theory

How did you guys, that know the guitar neck pretty good, get to your level? I mean, i've read Total guitar tutor by Terry Burrows, and Rock chops by Tobias Hurwitz, and still, i have no idea, absolutely no idea how i'd learn scales...I mean, i go to activeguitar.com check out some scales, but its just too much to remember, they give you the notes over the whole fingerboard, with octaves and repeated notes, it seems so daunting and ****..There's gotta be an easier way
Cheers

[VitaminG]

Re: Basic Solo Theory

[NB]take the following with a grain of salt. I am far from the most qualified here to answer this, but I read a book once.... [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img] [/NB]

Looking at every note in a scale, in every position on the fretboard all at once is pretty daunting. It's a lot of notes! And the way to connect them aren't always immediately apparent.

Start by learning the 7 basic 3-note-per-string scale shapes, one at a time so you don't go breakin' something in your head right away. [img]graemlins/images/icons/wink.gif[/img] You probably already know a few of them, either because you've learnt them somewhere or because you'll recognise the patterns from solos you've learnt or studied already. Learn how to connect each shape to the next. Play across the neck in one position (low strings to high), slide up to the next and play back across the neck (high to low). Slide up to the next pos. and play across the neck again. Continue up the neck. Once you get the hang of this, try play the scale on one string only.

Then start mixing it up a bit.
</font><ul type="square">[*]<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Run the scales using melodic sequences (ascending or descending groups of 3, 4, 5, whatever). Gary Moore uses this to great effect to bring his solos to a peak.</font>[*]<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Play across the strings for a couple of notes, and then up or down one string for a couple of notes, keeping changing your direction. Get used to playing outside of one scale shape.</font>[*]<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">See if you can play through a scale from one end of the neck to the other without screwing up. Take a different route every time you try it.</font>[*]<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Learn the sound of the scale you're working on and then have faith in your ears to tell you when you're playing a note not in that scale.</font>[/list]<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">
Once you know these basic shapes, it's just a matter of sliding them up or down the neck to key you need. I rarely know what scale or mode I'm be playing in, I just fool around until I find a shape that sounds good over a chord progression. And then I'll launch off from that.

Alternatively, get Troy Stetina's Speed Mechanics book and have a guy that can actually play (unlike myself) show you how to do it, in simple, easy to understand terms. The Man is a great teacher who makes a lot of this stuff easy to understand

[lerxstcat]

Re: Basic Solo Theory

I started with the 2-octave major scale
that stays within a 3-fret distance. In
A you start on the 5th fret low E and al the notes are between the 4th and 7th frets. Of course that form can be used chromatically in any key too. Then I went up and learned the same scale but starting on the 12th fret A string which
in that position you play up to the 17th
fret high A. Then I learned a little 1
octave A major that does 3 notes per string on the 7, 9 and 11 frets of the D string, 7,9, 11 of the G, then move your position to the 13th fret and you land on the 14th fret A on the G string, which is
the same place you'd be if you were halfway through the 2-octave A that starts on the 12th fret A string.

Then I just looked for ways to connect all those positions by different means of
3 and 4 note-per string patterns so I could shift positions on any of the different strings depending on how I wanted to play the scale.

Then I did the same thing with the minor scales, which was easier than the major scales had been because I knew where I was more or less already.

[deviltronix]

Re: Basic Solo Theory

One thing that did wonders for me is taking a years worth of drum lessons... Apply drum theory to guitar solo's can expand your chops beyond belief.

rich

[Alexi7]

Re: Basic Solo Theory

Thanks alot guys. Piano theory was so much easier, after 2 years of playing that, i cant believe how different guitar is, even with all that knowledge from Piano. Im trying to take in as much as possible; with those 7 shapes that you talked about, Gary, that's what i find really daunting, because i know ill need to know all 7 for the scales i wanna learn, but are there any kinda shortcuts which make it easier to remember?
Lerx, ill try that out, hopefully all goes well, i can picture it, i just have to get a better understanding.
Cheers [img]graemlins/toast.gif[/img]

[taxistationary]

Re: Basic Solo Theory

The best thing you can do is take lessons from a guy who knows what he's doing; i think that’s the best thing to do. I could sit here all day and tell you progressions, scales, and modes, ect. But without someone showing examples to you physically on the guitar, its nearly impossible. If you can't afford lessons, i would recommend getting a theory book. Start with the basics: Diatonic scales, Pentatonic scales, memorizing all the keys and their signatures, intervals, Major/Minor pecking order, relative minors, and of course the chords. Then maybe move onto things like modes. The Guitar Grim war (or what ever the hell its called) is a great book for people that know the theory already. I would recommend getting that, and a good theory book. That way you could not only learn the scales, but also where and when to use them. Good luck! [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[Steve]

Re: Basic Solo Theory

the things I've found with scales are that I can't just pic a scale and solo creativly with it all my solos are of the top of my head and are medium fast and melodic , where as dave [the better solo half in the band, the total shredder] can write anything using scales , I got the guitar grimwar book and I totally get confused with any scale that they show how it covers the whole fretboard , so I usally just pick one and practice that till I got it down , I think I'll let Dave do all the speedy solos and I'll just stick to song writing and lyrics some of that **** is like math or something just totally **** up , but I geuss it's all fun ! //Steve