Scales

[angst]

Hi everyone, I need you to help me.

I play de guitars in a trash metal band , I have been playing around 3 and a half years, but I'm not very good in theory, scales, etc (I have played this past years mostly with the heart). My group has 3 songs (reasonable I think because all the members in the band have 15 years) and I have managed myself to compose quite interest solos, not any piece of art, but I'm proud of my solos, with mainly the tipically pentatonic minor scale.

Well we are now composing the 4th and 5th song, but these songs have a different sound. There are more "dark", so the tipical pentatonic minor, that has this rocker sound, is not helping me much. Also I am trying to compose more interest solos. For these new solos have tried a harmonic minor scale, a harmonic minor scale with raised 4th (Gypsy scale) and the tipical pentatonic. My idea is to try to mix many scales and modes for a more interest sound.

Which is the Islamic Scale for example?

Does anyone has any other scales with this "dark" sound (like the islamic, the minor harmonic, etc)?

Can anyone recommend me any licks and different techiniques that could help me (I don't know, sounds with the tremolo bar, etc)?

[img]graemlins/help.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/help.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/help.gif[/img]
Thanks for reading this boring [img]graemlins/sleep.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/sleep.gif[/img] message [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img] .

[chemical_ali]

Re: Scales

you sound like you need some lessons in playing and theory!!


the locryan scale is very dissonant sounding and is used by "dark" metal people...

it's the 7th mode of the major scale.

[angst]

Re: Scales

The lesson is already fixed, I change recently from teacher and I enter a Music Conservatory. But I just enter (about 1 month ago) and imposible to learn everything in one month and my group can't wait much.

Thats why I posted this message.

Thanks

[KYJoe]

Re: Scales

Hi angst,

I have a couple of suggestions which should help...

A teacher is not the only way to learn what you need to know for this song. You could buy a book, video, or dvd that could show you all the scales and how to use them.

Or if you're tight on cash, search the internet...there are PLENTY of guitar sites that have free lessons, free tab and free info like scales and modes. Just do a normal search and you should have what you're looking for in less than a half an hour.

The second suggestion is to try and come up with a solo on your own using what knowledge you have already. All you need is the chord changes that happen during the solo and a little imagination, you might surprise yourself! [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

Good luck
Joe

[the_drip]

Re: Scales

islamic scale? sorry bud, but those dudes in INdia/pakistan have a complteley different tonal system than we do. They're intervals are much smalle rthan our own. They sound similar to what we would call a quarter step. Western music works on the notion that there are only 12 steps in any chromatic scale. I would suggest just stayin gaway from teh pentatonic scales. and try the locrian, whole-tone and chromatic scales.

just play what sounds good to you. chances are i fyou think it sounds good, somebody else who hears it is bound to like i ttoo. have fun!

[chemical_ali]

Re: Scales

it's hard to stay away from pentatonics when you konw the shapes up and down the neck and can play it fluently. i'm trying to force myself to solo in "real" modes but am also having a hard time. oh well, i guess it's back to the woodshed. [img]graemlins/baby.gif[/img]

[skarhead]

Re: Scales

harmonic minor - i think that nile and vader ( this one for sure ) use them , and all of the mod's of them (bizantine and ... ) download guitar pro 4 u have mane scales there so u should be happy [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

btw yes i know that nile and vader aren't "heavy" metal but there are heavy in some way and "dark sounding" ( especially nile ) greetings [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[abnertnt03]

Re: Scales

I suggest just the regular major scale and its relative minor to start.....that will give you three notes a string instead of just two with the pentatonic....And I feel this is important to your learning process.....If you jump into these crazy scales and modes.....You will never know there meaning and how to use them....You have to learn to walk before you run.....Same with guitar....Learn a Eminor......then an Aminor.....and if your playing metal this is what you need to learn to get you closer to where you are going....

[1trussell]

Re: Scales

If book learning is a route that will work for you, a great reference guide is the Guitar Grimoire. It has every scale and mode and has them listed in a format that is fairly easy to catch on to. It is about $20 american. Check it out.

[Donnie]

Re: Scales

angst

You could look into a CD called (Lead Guitar Made Easy). I really enjoyed it. Lots of information on it and more importantly it is easy to understand. Full explanation of the Diatonic(Major scale) and all its modes. including Pentonic and a little on Blues scales. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[LesPaulCustom]

Re: Scales

Here is my 0.02 worth. The Guitar Grimoire is a great reference book that covers a lot of ground, but for a newer player I think is a bit advanced.

Like somebody else said, learn the major/relative minors first, then Pentatonic Major/Minor. It was(is) easier for me to learn the 3 note-per-string scales. They are great for building technique also using triplets, 16ths, and septuplets.

A good book that is very reasonable is The Pocket Scale Guide by Stetina. They are like only $6 or so and has a lot of info in it.

[jvbjr]

Re: Scales

I studied theory for six years, at least four hours a day. In a nutshell, you need to know the 21 modes that are built off of the ionian, melodic minor and harmonic minor scales.

Music theory is pretty simple, there are 12 notes you can pick, most scales use seven.

If you do not understand which chords belong to which of the modes, you will never be a musician, just a wanker that learned a scale out of some book.

You should be able to rattle off the 21 modes and their corisponding chord structures in your sleep if you want to be a theory monster. When I lived in the city and took the subway each day I used that time to close my eyes and envision each scale.

It is very cool to know that Lydian is the forth mode of ionian and it has a raised fourth.

It is much cooler to know that you can borrow from melodic minor the Lydian b9 or Lydian Augmented scales for cool passing tones.

A secret I learned along the way is, you can get away with 10 of the 12 notes and not sound like a dork, figure out which 2 are to be avoided and you are good to go.

[the_drip]

Re: Scales

6 years 4 hours a day? goddamn.

6 years of theory? just for modal study? What else did you cover?


I took music theory classes into a 202 class that covered serial music, and crap like the petrushka chord, german 6th, italian 6th..neapolitans...etc

Just enrolled in 18th century counterpoint. this is my 5th and final year of undergrad classes.

[jvbjr]

Re: Scales

Taking classes is different than applying the knowledge to a useful form.

Can you rattle off the modes? Can you rattle off which modes to use over a dominant chord and why? How those modes fit within the frame work of the three main modal spheres or ionian, melodic minor and harmonic minor?

I have know a lot of people that have read a book of took a class or two that have no practical experience using the information.

In the end, the listener cares about hearing something appealing. How, when and where you pick the notes is useless to them. For you as the composer however, the more you know and have at your disposal, the more choices you have.

There is no one way to learn theory, but there is only one way to make it work, and that is to play your instrument and apply the lessons there.

Vai spent an entire year studying Lydian and its various mutations.

[the_drip]

Re: Scales

thanks for re-iterating my entire life...that was real helpful.


[img]images/icons/tongue.gif[/img] I've integrated theory into my daily practice yes..I run through scales...but when it comes to writing a melody or a harmony....I go with my gut .