Chords,Scales, Arpeggios by Al Politano

[Newc]

Ok, I've had this book for about 12 years or so, and I never can get past the first set of arpeggios because of one stumbling block - proper technique.

If anyone else has this book, explain this arpeggio to me:



The Root is shown to be on the 4th string, yet there are notes on the 6th and 5th strings, as well as the 3rd, 2nd, and 1st after the Root.
Do I play the Root note first, then proceed to the 5th and 6th strings, then jump back to the 3rd string to continue, or do I start on the 6th string?
Some of the other arpeggios in the book are like this (Root not on the 6th, but notes on either side) but most show the Root on the 6th.

Newc

[taxistationary]

Re: Chords,Scales, Arpeggios by Al Politano

That arpeggio is starting on it's 3rd note. I would play it exactly how its written and try to understand it as much as i can. Basic major/minor arpeggio's rely off of triads of the scale that they are from; the 1st note (root), 3rd note, and 5th notes played consecutively will form a basic arpeggio.

Example in C:
C D E F G A B
1 2 3 4 5 6 7

Take the first (C - root), the 3rd (E), and the 5th (G), and there you have a standard (and very basic arpeggio.

Now, to relate that back to your question: All thats different about the arpeggio in the book is that you don't start on the root, you start on the 3rd.

[Shawn Lutz]

Re: Chords,Scales, Arpeggios by Al Politano

no...play them all. The root of a scale or mode isn't always the first note of the it. Just as if you played a G Maj chord with a 3rd in the bass...its still a G maj chord but has the 3rd as the first note or bass note

if you think about it, chords, arpeggios and modes are really built off the major scale. Everything has its own formula for which its built off of. All major Chords are built off the 1,3 and 5 notes of the scale

So in Key of G
I-G
II-A
III-B
IV-C
V-D
VI-E
VII-F#
VIII-G 8va higher

G, B and D make up the G maj chord. The G major arppegio contains the exact same notes as the chord but if you use a 3 notes per string technique you play all the G, B and D notes that you can on all six strings to build the arpeggio.

Sorry if I'm not explaining this easy enoough but I havent had enough coffee yet

[markb]

Re: Chords,Scales, Arpeggios by Al Politano

It reads as 3,5,R,3,5,R,3,5 from low to high. Arpeggio studies usually have you develop arps from any string, ascending and descending to help you always know where you are from any note on the board.

The arpeggio is basically a repeating 1st inversion triad. It is not a full major arpeggio, as it has no natural seventh.

[taxistationary]

Re: Chords,Scales, Arpeggios by Al Politano

I always thought that if you added a nautral 7th to a Major arpeggio, it would become a Major 7th arpeggio just as a Major chord with an added 7th becomes a Major 7th chord? I'm not questioning you, just learning. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[markb]

Re: Chords,Scales, Arpeggios by Al Politano

Hmmmm....I'm not sure now that you point that out. A R,3,5 triad is referred to as a major triad, but once you go beyond a triad, it's not usually referred to as major unless it includes the seventh. I think you are right, though, and it would be major even without the seventh, because of the third. Not questioning me?Why not? I'm just another board member.

[taxistationary]

Re: Chords,Scales, Arpeggios by Al Politano

Hmm..I see. Well, i try to show some respect, im only 15. Thanks for the info [img]images/icons/cool.gif[/img]

[Shawn Lutz]

Re: Chords,Scales, Arpeggios by Al Politano

Originally posted by john:
I always thought that if you added a nautral 7th to a Major arpeggio, it would become a Major 7th arpeggio just as a Major chord with an added 7th becomes a Major 7th chord? I'm not questioning you, just learning. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">you are right John...Major Chords are 1,3,5 only... if you add the 7th it would be a Major 7th (1,3,5,7)

Newc, I think if you learn chord formulas doing the arpeggios are a lot easier because note wise they are essentially the same thing and contain the same exact notes perspective chord..all derived from the major scale.

[Shawn Lutz]

Re: Chords,Scales, Arpeggios by Al Politano

Originally posted by markpb:
Hmmmm....I'm not sure now that you point that out. A R,3,5 triad is referred to as a major triad, but once you go beyond a triad, it's not usually referred to as major unless it includes the seventh. I think you are right, though, and it would be major even without the seventh, because of the third. Not questioning me?Why not? I'm just another board member.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">wrong...triad = 3 note chord...a 7th has the 1,3,5 and 7th

[markb]

Re: Chords,Scales, Arpeggios by Al Politano

Thanks , Shawn. I always think in terms of 7ths and had forgotten some of the basic triad stuff. I mentioned above you could technically call a 1,3,5 triad as major, but really in jazz theory it is considered improper to refer to a triad as "major". A C major triad is to be referred to as simply "C". Major is used as one of the distinctions between 7ths (major, minor, dominant), that is why I was hesitant to refer to it formally as a major arpeggio, although technically it could be considered that. That is why you will never see a C,E,G,C (1,3,5,1) first position C chord refered to as C major on sheet music, it will always be referred to as simply C. That is why I didn't think of it as a "full" major arpeggio, and instead referred to it as a repeating triad of sorts.

Major chords are not only built off the 1,3,5,(7) (stacked thirds off the 1) of a major scale, they are also built off the 4 (stacked thirds off the 4th of a major scale)the first in this case being the tonic, the second as a subdominant. (as in: 1 (tonic,home), 4, (subdominant, away), 5 (dominant, pointing home)
So a major scale produces two majors (1 and 4), 3 minor(II,III,VI), one dominant(V) and one half diminished(7)

[markb]

Re: Chords,Scales, Arpeggios by Al Politano

Heh, PS congrats on the Robbin Crosby V, had to say it! You're a lucky man

[taxistationary]

Re: Chords,Scales, Arpeggios by Al Politano

Yea, thats the way I learned it when I was studying traids and chord/arpeggio structure. Thanks for the clarification shawn.

[Shawn Lutz]

Re: Chords,Scales, Arpeggios by Al Politano

Originally posted by markpb:
Thanks , Shawn. I always think in terms of 7ths and had forgotten some of the basic triad stuff. I mentioned above you could technically call a 1,3,5 triad as major, but really in jazz theory it is considered improper to refer to a triad as "major". A C major triad is to be referred to as simply "C". Major is used as one of the distinctions between 7ths (major, minor, dominant), that is why I was hesitant to refer to it formally as a major arpeggio, although technically it could be considered that. That is why you will never see a C,E,G,C (1,3,5,1) first position C chord refered to as C major on sheet music, it will always be referred to as simply C. That is why I didn't think of it as a "full" major arpeggio, and instead referred to it as a repeating triad of sorts.

Major chords are not only built off the 1,3,5,(7) (stacked thirds off the 1) of a major scale, they are also built off the 4 (stacked thirds off the 4th of a major scale)the first in this case being the tonic, the second as a subdominant. (as in: 1 (tonic,home), 4, (subdominant, away), 5 (dominant, pointing home)
So a major scale produces two majors (1 and 4), 3 minor(II,III,VI), one dominant(V) and one half diminished(7)

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yeah...it is sort of an unwritten rule but by no means it is improper to refer to a C chord as a Major chord though...it is a certain assumption and you don't have to call it major. Also what do you call a C chord with a flatted 3rd? there is no 7th so you can't call it a minor chord..nope. [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img] .it would be a C minor chord with a 1,b3, 5 chord formula

[markb]

Re: Chords,Scales, Arpeggios by Al Politano

Originally posted by Shawn Lutz:
Yeah...it is sort of an unwritten rule but by no means it is improper to refer to a C chord as a Major chord though..

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yep it was just a mental habit of mine to think of the major as including the seventh for practical purposes. You guys were more alert, though, and a C is certainly major and I was certainly wrong. [img]graemlins/images/icons/tongue.gif[/img]

[83SanDimas]

Re: Chords,Scales, Arpeggios by Al Politano

Newc

Is this just a simple "how do I read this" question? Not Theory?

If so.... bear with me...

The numbers are of course your fingers on your right hand. You play from bottom to top left to right... This is a shape arpegio and does not matter where on the neck you throw this shape.

The 3 on the lowest line represents your wring finger on the low (fat) E string


It may be easier to play this starting with a root note. Use the open e and then start the pattern on the 4th fret with your ring finger. Then play the 2nd and third strings on the 2nd fret with your index finger. Then hit the 6th fret of the d string with your pinky. Then I would alter the finger position you showed by playing the last 4 notes like a d chord except moved up 2 frets. simply play an open d but moved 2 frets. pick one note at a time. end with your pinky on the 7th fret of the high e string. Play the pattern up and down.


When I play this pattern arpegio I do it in 2 parts with a jump. I use alternate picking but try a hammer sweep. Others here will have better technique tips I am sure. Try the first 4 notes with your index finger "planted" on the second frets of the a and d string.
1) Downward picking open E
2)ring finger hammer on 4th fret.
3)continue downward picking ,index finger on 2nd fret on a nd d strings.
4) hammer on 6th fret of d string

Play these 5 notes for a while up and down 123454321

Your index finger can remain planted and you can hammer the ring and index. Repeat and you will feel it. The open e as the root helps

The high notes of this pattern are a an easy alternate pick pattern.


Maintain thaat D chorde shape....

1)Move the open d chord shape up 2 frets and pick in a downward direction

2)play the 7th fret with your pinky picking
upward. Keep that d chorde pattern with your fingers just adding the pinky

3)remove your pinky and you are back at that "d" cchorde shape. Play the high e picking down andthe b and g strings picking in an upward direction

Link the 2 patterns together. When you down out of the d chorde shape you wind up back with your pinky on the 6th fret of the e string.

I hope this is what you were looking for. If so I can tab this out for you.

Kev