Sweep Picking woes....

[dg]

Marty did sweep in Megadeth. Not like Yngwie does where he would do an arp section, and not just up and down the same arps like a lot of the YouTube heroes do. Marty would insert it into flowing melodic lines and was always very musical with it.

Exactly! I don't like to say there's a right way or wrong way to do anything in music, but to my ears that was the right way to use sweeps & not have it come across as wankery. Skolnick always did it with taste & musical purpose as well, imo.

[RR05xx]

LOL! Marty said that. Too funny.

Lets see, what most consider to be his best solos: Hanger 18 (second bar of the first solo), Holy Wars (as was noted - 1st solo in Punishment due - after the acosutic peice in the middle) and Tornado of Souls (several runs in the first part and second part).

Agreed on the use and taste comments (both Marty and Sckolnick have incredicle phrasing IMHO - they are tied for first in my book for best metal guiutarists for that reason).

[MartinBarre]

Yeah Marty seems a bit mixed up in some of his comments. He seemed to be suggesting big guitar solos were dead, and people need to concentrate on writing songs instead. But his new album is as full of solos as ever!

[nsubulysses]

The second solo after the first Mexican interlude solo of Holy Wars starts out with about two full bars of sweeped arpeggios.

Dude not to bust your chops but that's a middle eastern sounding part because the song is called Holy Wars. They talk about Israel in the song.

Also I find it VERY funny that Marty says that about sweeping because the way I basically learned how to do sweeps was from learning a couple solos on Rust in Peace. Particularly the solos on Holy Wars, Hangar 18, and Poison Was the Cure.

[MartinBarre]

Dude not to bust your chops but that's a middle eastern sounding part because the song is called Holy Wars. They talk about Israel in the song.

Also I find it VERY funny that Marty says that about sweeping because the way I basically learned how to do sweeps was from learning a couple solos on Rust in Peace. Particularly the solos on Holy Wars, Hangar 18, and Poison Was the Cure.

Yeah I wondered about the "Mexican" thing.
I don't know what Marty's deal is. Trying to distance himself from shredding maybe, his newest album sounds like nu-metal but like I say it's still loaded with soloing.

[<-Mitch->]

It's also funny Marty would say that because of...erm...CACOPHONY!

Jason Becker is a sweep picking GOD but Marty actually wrote most of SMS but obviously, opinions change as you go on.

Just like Paul Gilbert playing RX solos in 1987, and then playing Scarified in 2008, the solos are completely different because he doesn't like to play that way because it's senseless, but back then, it's the ONLY thing he wanted to do.

Anyway, JacksonVHT & Spivonious , that's right, yes. Hope you're getting on alright with it so far!

[scott.court]

Sadly, I've never been able to sweep pick. It's one of those skills that eludes me... like wallpapering. No matter how hard it try, it's still sh*t lol

[Matt_B]

I too am sweep picking challenged but I am overcoming the "rolling" motion and I'm starting to figure where my picking technique is causing problems.

My picking motion comes primarily from finger movement which works great for alternate picking (so far). Heck, I've been so focused on alternate picking my basic strumming has gotten a bit rusty. To remedy this I'm doing real simple exercises that arpeggiate a chord (with muting) and I focus on my picking motion exclusively. I'm starting to see some progress so if I can get better, there's hope for everyone.

For anyone that can't sweep pick, I would start picking apart your technique and I mean dissecting it on the molecular level because one of two things is happening. Either you're missing some fundamental part of the technique because you don't know about it or don't understand it (unlikely with all the videos on the subject) or there's some aspect of your technique that is preventing you from sweeping.

I did try finding a teacher locally who could help me but he wasn't much help. He was not a sweep picking master so I took one lesson to figure that out and never went back.

[Ben...]

Oh, poor JVHT. It looks like the hammer was put down on him.

I work on sweep picking a lot. I find the key to it is start at a medium speed. Too slow and you end up not sweeping but picking individual notes and too fast and it sounds like crap because your hands aren't in sync with each other.

[<-Mitch->]

I started practising sweep picking with 6 notes per beat at 40bpm!!! That was slooooooooow, but you can pick each note but you just have to train yourself not to. I did an insane practice thing for 6 weeks where I played every single thing at 40bpm for a whole week, and increased the bpm by 10 each week. I wasn't that good at the speed then so I got stuck at around 80/85 but it made my technique SO much cleaner even just doing that.

[Matt_B]

I started practising sweep picking with 6 notes per beat at 40bpm!!! That was slooooooooow, but you can pick each note but you just have to train yourself not to. I did an insane practice thing for 6 weeks where I played every single thing at 40bpm for a whole week, and increased the bpm by 10 each week. I wasn't that good at the speed then so I got stuck at around 80/85 but it made my technique SO much cleaner even just doing that.

That's pretty much what I'm doing know. I've committed myself to learning this technique come hell or high water. Right now I'm actually practicing sweep picking on my acoustic just to focus on getting it clean. FWIW, I have a very sweet acoustic that plays as well as any of my electrics all the way up the neck. Sweep picking on it is not a problem. I know when I make the switch to electric (with distortion) I'll have to work a bit on getting it clean sounding again but at least I'll have the basics down pat. Besides, playing 6 string arpeggios that go from the 5th to 12th fret sounds pretty cool to me.

[Ben...]

I find that 5 and 6 string sweeps easier than 3 string sweeps. You have more room for error and it's not as confined of a space. For practicing slow, I dig in as much as possible to keep things smooth. It may sound bad but once you get used to it you can speed up a lot faster.

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=VXf-kfox7GY

Here's what I'm working on. I can play it at the speed Jeff plays when he plays it slower. I just started it and the left hand is actually pretty easy but it's easy to get mixed up.

[Matt_B]

I'm the exact opposite Ben. 3 string sweeps are pretty easy for me. I started learning those when Paul Gilbert's first video came out but I never progressed beyond those first 3 strings.

I've been a bit stymied but sweeps that require you to go across strings on the same fret but I'm cracking that nut, slowly but surely.

I should mention that with a pattern that goes from the 5th fret of the 6th string to the 12th fret of the 1st string, I'm tossing in hammer-ons, pulloffs and a slide too so it's not pure sweep picking but it gets me where I need to go.

Regardless, I've worked up a few exercises in Guitar Pro that keep me on the "all sweeping, all the time" path so I will achieve my objective.

[Ben...]

I know that pattern. I worked on it a ton. My guitar teacher taught me the major and minor versions of it so I create these neat sweeping runs. You hammer on off the first note and then do a slide half way through. Then you hammer on to the 12th then pull off back and then do the pattern backwards. That one's fun!

Try doing the sweeps from the start of the Nevermore tune Psalm of Lydia. Obviously not at full speed; that's nuts. It has major and minor sweeps and it has a really smooth progression as well as it teaches a lot of different patterns.

[Dred]

For those with rolling problems, here's what I would suggest. Get the basic 5 string Minor shape starting on the root down. And I mean down down.

Amin
E-------------12-15-12-------------
B-----------13---------13----------
G---------14-------------14--------
D-------14-----------------14------
A-12-15----------------------15-12-

Cmin
E-------------15-20-15-------------
B-----------16---------16----------
G---------17-------------17--------
D-------17-----------------17------
A-15-18----------------------18-15-

Dmin
E-------------17-22-17-------------
B-----------18---------18----------
G---------19-------------19--------
D-------19-----------------19------
A-17-20----------------------20-17-

The way I do these, is I roll while on a down rake, and then use my third finger to fret the note on the G, second on the D, then the third on the first note of A, and the index for the second. I found that using the stronger digits gives better control for those lower strings, as there is little space for your hand.

Once you have those down, get the Major shape starting on the root.

Amin
E-------------12-15-12-------------
B-----------14---------14----------
G---------14-------------14--------
D-------14-----------------14------
A-12-16----------------------16-12-

Cmin
E-------------15-20-15-------------
B-----------17---------17----------
G---------17-------------17--------
D-------17-----------------17------
A-15-19----------------------19-15-

Dmin
E-------------17-22-17-------------
B-----------19---------19----------
G---------19-------------19--------
D-------19-----------------19------
A-17-21----------------------21-17-

My tip for this, is don't use the same finger to roll while raking up (down in pitch). I use my middle for the B and G and my index for the D, finishing with my pinky and index on the A.

Now for the tough one in the batch, the minor chord's first inversion. This one is quite... annoying. There's two rolls here, so slow is the key,
A few examples:

F#min
E-------------14-17-14-------------
B-----------14---------14----------
G---------14-------------14--------
D-------16-----------------16------
A-12-16----------------------16-12-

Amin
E-------------17-20-17-------------
B-----------17---------17----------
G---------17-------------17--------
D-------19-----------------19------
A-17-19----------------------19-15-

Bmin
E-------------19-22-19-------------
B-----------19---------19----------
G---------19-------------19--------
D-------21-----------------21------
A-17-21----------------------21-17-

I know I haven't done the B and F# arps for other shapes, but I'm keeping everything in roughly the same positions. The way I do this, is the first roll is done with the pinky, and the second one with the middle, all the way through, and in reverse, I do the middle finger bit all the way through, and instead of using my pinky, I use my ring finger for the D-A roll. I know we used two different fingers for the Major shape's reverse rake, but I find that in this case, a single finger for the three strings works fine as there's less space between the fingers. I use the ring insead of the pinky because it's beefier, so I can actually fret the string down easier. I strongly suggest you develop your own finger pattern for this.

That's it for now. Remember, the beefier fingers work better for the rolls, and when going in reverse (presuming you start on the A string), you can use a combination of fingers to make it easier to go in that direction.