Writing Songs...

[CharvelRocker]

Am I the only one who just cannot write? Is it because I lack a drum machine or (as of late) people to collaborate with? I feel like a lot of my "written" stuff comes out sounding either cheesy or like something I've heard before, and my solos just feel repetitive. I also have a hard time finding that "magic note" that a good solo has that kind of hooks you on it. I think I am a fairly technically competent guitarist, but I just can not write anything. Would it be a good idea to go back to taking lessons to have someone to work with and learn some new scales and break out of some of my playing cliches? Also, fwiw, I was considering just writing down three chords to build a song around and seeing what I could do, but I still get suck at actually building it and making a solo.

[Jayster]

I feel like a lot of my "written" stuff comes out sounding either cheesy or like something I've heard before, and my solos just feel repetitive.

sounds like you're in a rut, these things happen(at least to me). I've found 3 things that work on busting ruts;

1)find some one new to jam with, not necessarily standard rock instruments either(I used to jam with a sax player occasionally)
2)Try playing new styles of music, they're a lot to choose from
3)quit playing for a few days or maybe a week, then when you come back to it - you should'nt feel stagnant.

I hope this helps you out.
Jay

[Danno]

sounds like you're in a rut, these things happen(at least to me). I've found 3 things that work on busting ruts;

1)find some one new to jam with, not necessarily standard rock instruments either(I used to jam with a sax player occasionally)
2)Try playing new styles of music, they're a lot to choose from
3)quit playing for a few days or maybe a week, then when you come back to it - you should'nt feel stagnant.

I hope this helps you out.
Jay

Jayster pretty much covered my suggestions. The only other thing I might add, in keeping with trying new styles of music, would be to take some composition lessons with a jazz or classical teacher. Learning to write 2 bar phrases, then 4 bar phrases, etc., in a whole new genre, might prove liberating, as it will get rid of all those thoughts of "Is this just a copy of something I've heard?" "Is this just crap?", etc. Good luck. Ruts are tough.

[Endrik]

do a lot of drugs... you will be a hit machine

anyway.. it's really hard to teach songwriting... it's something that must come out inside of you... creativity can't be taught... but you can be influenced by a lot of things so your creative side would be more richer

some ways how I make my songs
1) it's just pops into my head... for example I'm taking a shower and then suddenly I hear the whole tune in my head... playbacked... I hear the chords, riffs, drum beat, bass line, arrangement, production, vocal melodies, vocal harmonies, horn/string sections etc. It's like listening to a stereo.. only it happens in my head and I just made up that tune.
Rarely I just hear a guitar riff in my head... mostly it's the whole band. A lot of times it's one section of the song but many times it's the whole thing.
2)jamming with other musicians... feeding each other with cool ideas... later you pick the best sounding parts and arrange a real tune.
3)just writing... trying to hum a melody or an idea or noodling around on a guitar... trying to analyze critically... does it work or not... is it memoriable enough... does it work with another instruments... is the tempo right... maybe I should play it in another key etc. later playing with a band you have to change stuff anyway a bit. And trying to figure out which drum beat fits with a specific guitar riff. How to make tension with dynamics and chord progressions etc.

Maybe you should listen to hook driven music... mostly the stuff you usually don't listen to. All kinds of stuff which is written and arranged very well... stuff from Motown and Stax records, Philly Soul, 60's British bands, Power Pop like The Knack, Raspberries, Cheap Trick etc. 70's Disco like The Brothers Johnson band. Or cool funk like The Meters or Tower Of Power. New Wave... anything from Duran Duran to Peter Gabriel. Nashville pop country, Italian opera, middle eastern music specially movie soundtracks etc. etc. etc. There's so much great music.

And while listening all that stuff it's good to do it in 2 different ways.
First, trying to feel the tune, trying to connect emotionally with it, just listening to it and seeing how you react to the hooks etc.
The second time you should analyze everything critically. Why this hook works? Is this the combination of a great vocal melody and a chord progression? Why this drum beat makes it flow so fell? How this bass line "carries" the tune. How the arrangement made the different parts work together. How the dynamics made the emotion of the song stand out. How was the tension created or released etc. etc. etc.

I think doing this would help your subconscious to throw out better ideas and whatnot.

[GinSonic]

Artists are the worst critics when it comes to their own stuff.

Anyone else heard your stuff? Musicians and non-musicians alike? What's their thoughts?

Listen to their opinions and just look at it as constructive, not destructive. Keep your ego in check.

Your songs may sound the same to you and perhaps that's because you're developing a style and method of songwriting that you're getting comfortable with. That could be part of the problem and changing things up would be a good thing.

There's no secret formula to songwriting. It's a process of creation, imagination and inspiration. A song can come up at the most weirdest of times, it can come from persistent trial and error, it can come from a book you read, it can come from experimenting with different tunings, etc.

Often times, a melody gets in my head, I get on my guitar to play the supporting chords for it, feel how the music moves me to get an idea of what the song's about, then I work on lyrics to fit the cadence of the melody, structure the whole composition, {intro-verse-chorus-verse-chorus-solo-chorus-bridge-etc, etc,etc...} and voila! A song is born.

Other times, it's a guitar riff that a song is built around. I've even written a song around the drone of a backhoe in a construction site!

I usually write my tunes acoustically. I'm an apartment dweller, so I can't use the Marshall at its extreme. That's why I've got a Spider 210.

Most of my songs are written acappella style, as a folk artist would write. I write most of them with the intention of multi genre capability. A strong enough base to appeal to many types. Often times I've reviewed songs and reworked them. You hear your song and think, "Man! That would sound good done in the style of---------{insert musical style here.}"

I've collaborated with my best buddy, who isn't the best musician, but he's written some brilliant tunes. We've even changed some of our tunes into kids songs!

I mirror Danno and Jaysters suggestions. However, I would add that you don't be so hard on yourself concerning your songs. Roll with it, man. It's creativity and art. We're fortunate to have this gift and as many of my non-musician friends and acquaintances have said, "You are so lucky that you can play a musical instrument." Yes....They envy me!

In the end, it's your songs. Do as you will with them.
Cheers.
G.

[Spivonious]

Listen to the Beatles. Just pick an album and learn a few of the songs. It really opened up my mind when it came to writing songs. McCartney is a master.

[markD]

thankfully, i have always been rather prolific. i am NOT a techicnal guitarist at all. i play by feel. i ignore the rules and play what i hear. there ARE times where i will over-analize parts of a song, thinking it's wrong because some piece of theory is wrong. if it sounds good it sounds good.

follow your gut, and like what has already been mentioned, learn some other styles, and listen to different types of music. i listen to the local easy-listening station when i am home...they play a plethora of great songs that have stood the test of time - hooks galore, different tones, approaces, etc. i just absorb what i am hearing and apply it to my playing.

i don't "practice" guitar either. i just play. everytime a play i usually come up with a useable riff or progression. when i do, i keep playing the progression and build off it and see where i can take it. if i can build off it, then i keep it and determine if it is a good song for my band (a vocal song) or something for my publishing company (instrumental soundtrack stuff).

when i DO get in a rut (which i am in currently) i will grab a chord book and learn some weird ass inverted 7th with a dimished 13 chord. then i learn to implement it into a three or four chord movable progression. once i do that, i'll record the movable progression and "practice" scales over it. often i find a new lick or pattern that opens a new window of phrases.

one of the best things i EVER did was get a guitar synth and learn how to phrase like the different instruments. i learned to chord like a piano, slide notes like a violinist, slur and "hammer" notes like a flautist. that helped my lead playing a lot too....

i also go to open jams a lot and play with different types of artists. i learned the blues, some jazz comping - that was fun. i jammed with a jazz trio (piano, bass, drums). at first it was HIDEOUS!!!! this rock guy coming in and trying to blow over top of it. the "crowd" booed and everything!!! it was embarrassing....but i went back every week, and started to LISTEN to what they were doing and began to play in the "holes". eventually i got it.

i learned "fusion" the same way. i spent time playing with a smooth jazz group as their lead guitarist. that helped with my sense of melody, phrasing and blending pentatonic with exotic scales.

i played in a surf band with my brother for a while. that taught me how to play rythym guitar in a different way. instead of strumming chords or just playing power chords, i had to bounce between chord fragments and certain notes of the chord to ctreate the proper rythymic feel.

while my band has been playing A LOT lately (we just finished a 2 month run of shows, playing 22 shows) i STILL have managed to find time to go jam with this little country group that plays at the local blues dive (actually that's where i jammed with all these groups). i take my tele and my tremolux, and i am learning the cowboy chords and "pedal steel" bending...i am also playing with them in open G tuning (DGDGBE) which is a BLAST!!!

then when i play at home, i take all the things i have learned and begin applying it to my playing. it has really helped my songwriting A LOT. i DO NOT sit around and write a jazz tune, a blues tune, a funk tune, a country tune....i apply it to my commerical hard rock song writing.

hope some of this helps a bit.

[Soap]

Your thinking to hard about it your trying to force it and it won't work that way.
Pretty much to what Tim has already stated.
I'll just add and say some stuff a little differently.

Give your brain your life a rest. Living life can get to serious and the mind gets tired. I'm not saying go get loaded.
Do something/s easy but you've always wanted to do.
The brain needs to rest and enjoying easy fun stuff to refuel, little thinking required.

With that said:
1.Go on vacation, take 2-3 week vacation.
Do stuff and go places you've never been or would like to go and do, or go to a place you haven't been in a long time you would love to because it's a great place, great people, great memories and etc. Such, can do a life a world of good.
Married? Take the family with you and enjoy yourself. Are you annoying? (the kind of person that gets on peoples nerves really quickly and badly) fly solo go alone and still have fun. There's been times on a weekend getaway, 2-3 week vacation seeing my family enjoying themselves smiling and laughing that stuff makes me really happy.
I'm just a simple man with simple ways, but it works for me.

2. As already stated maybe not in so many words, but learn a different style of music.
This introduces you to an array of new stuff that will prove helpful to you as a player/writer. If you let it the whole experience can be very inspiring without question. It's some what the same as playing with someone else outside of rock guitar, and at some point learning a new style you will have to do to this if you want to get anything from it.

Also, just an example, but so simple most don't even consider such but it really works. Throw on Crazy Train (any song really) and do NOT play the original RR solo. Play your own solo that doesn't sound anything the original solo. Invent man, be creative with familiarity. Jam with someone and have them play open strings chords in various keys (major, minors and those odd weird sounding chords to your ears) and you solo over it.
Granted they will grow bored sooner than you will, but you get the point.

3. And probably the most important.
Know your limitations. Be realistic about them.
Meaning, there's people that have been playing for years and sound like $%#!. Alot of it is due to how they have practiced or not practiced.
Just stuff to think about that's all and not to be taken personally, just food for thought.

Again, know your limitations and be realistic about them.
Consider and observe BB King who is NOT a shredder and knows his limitation, yet has wrote some of the BEST blues songs and riffs from a guitar and made millions from it.
Yet, Vai, Malmsteen, EVH and many others can out play him any day. BB knows he can't shred and BB knows to shred doesn't make a blues song or hook great or impressionable.

4. Last but not least.
Quit your whining and keep having fun and loving what your doing with the guitar.

[broken_fusion]

I'm the same way. I'm worthless by myself. but when i get with a few guys and we start jamming the ideas really start to flow. I have had some ideas or progressions that sound rather cheesy or stale with a drum machine but when i worked it out with my band it they take on a whole new life.

[triplehold]

Just stick with it, develop your own style and eventually it will come to you. These guys have given you some great advice, just try some of their suggestions that might apply to you and your playing. Creativity and inspiration generally can't be forced, but when you're on the spot to come up with a good intro, bridge , chorus, ending, etc., and all of a sudden it just comes to you or you just "pull it out of your hat", then you're getting there. Don't labor too long on things or be afraid to change things. Heck, some of the best songs we have ever recorded and played live, were ones I wrote in about 10 minutes. Of course, they took hours and hours of practice before we played them tight as nails live. Sometimes the simplest things work the best.

[Soap]

Sometimes the simplest things work the best.

So true, not only for music and guitar but for life as well.

[CharvelRocker]

Hey... thanks for all the advice guys. I wrote a nifty little riff I think last night, and a short solo phrase that sounds kind of unique to go with it. Now just to build the song from there. I was thinking maybe a funky kind of rhythm.

[Newc]

This probably only happens to me, but when I listen to led Zeppelin at very low volumes, I hear completely different songs.

I mean like sleeping volume. White noise-kinda volume - just enough so you're not sleeping in total silence but not so loud that you know what song is playing.

Like I said, may just be me. Unfortunately by the time I get up and grab a guitar I'm close to the speakers and then I hear the real song clearly, and that wipes out whatever I was hearing

[GinSonic]

Earth to Newc....Earth to Newc!
WTF?!?!?!!?
G.

[Jayster]

This probably only happens to me, but when I listen to led Zeppelin at very low volumes,

Damn, now the price of kick ass rock CD's is going to go up, they'll have to fund the "PLAY THIS AT LOUD VOLUME" stickers for the cd covers. Much like McDonalds coffee after the infamous lawsuit !!!:ROTF: